Hillsong Church: Do Not Colonize San Francisco
Ben Houston, pastor of the famed Hillsong Church, recently posted this video announcing the planting of Hillsong’s new San Francisco campus:
I’m sure there are tons of people who are excited for Hillsong to come to the Bay Area. Hillsong’s music, of course, has changed our lives, from Oceans to Mighty to Save to the OG Hillsong Darlene Zchshechsehcz songs of the early 2000s. (The Potter’s Hand, anyone?). Not to mention we all know that Kevin Durant goes to Hillsong NYC and if he joins the Warriors next year he’ll need a place to worship. Would Steph go to Hillsong SF too?
Unfortunately, as much as I’d love to sing Oceans next to the Curries, Hillsong SF is not something I am looking forward to. In fact, their video offends me. And it makes me extremely sad for this city and what it is becoming. And I am convinced, beyond any doubt, that Hillsong SF has absolutely nothing to do with God’s Kingdom here in San Francisco.
San Francisco is a city under siege. There is a war going on here that can’t be seen or understood through the eyes of a naïve, idealistic pastor. So when Ben Houston shows up in his overly-produced video saying, “San Francisco is a city where we see great potential,” it’s painfully clear that he has no idea of the context onto which his words fall. Guess who else saw “great potential” in this city? The real estate agents, developers, and city officials who have destroyed neighborhoods, broken up families, and displaced poor people of color for their own idealized, dystopian visions for San Francisco. What kind of “great potential” does Hillsong fulfill with its presence? And why would this random Australian dude ever think he’s qualified to evaluate this city’s potential? San Francisco is not a hopeful candidate auditioning for his religious services. We have bigger things to worry about.
I’m so tired of this. I’m tired of pastors coming to San Francisco, posting pictures of bridges and crooked streets and declaring how much they love this city without actually understanding any of it, without being hurt by it, without any scars to show or dirt on their shoes or callouses on their hands. I’m tired of people acting like this is an AMAZING city because we have a waterfront and burritos, but—be careful—it’s also a demonic city because oh, we have gay people. What a perfect mix of yuppie fun and evangelistic intrigue; of course this city needs saving, doesn’t it? And of course salvation doesn’t look like you praying from where you are, it doesn’t look like supporting our local pastors financially, it doesn’t look like investing in community based organizations who are actually on the ground—no, that’s no fun!—it always looks like coming here, planting a church in Mission or Potrero or SOMA, kicking out a few poor families while you take pictures with your cute little kids and declare that God is going to do amazing things here in San Francisco! Amazing for who?
Any kind of language that implies that God’s work or God’s plan starts when we arrive (e.g., “God has a great plan for this city!” “San Francisco is a city where we see great potential!” “In San Francisco, the best is yet to come!” – Ben Houston) is indicative not only of terrible theology, but of white Christian exceptionalism, the oppressive belief that the correct kind salvation and healing can only be facilitated through us, on our terms with our methods—and us always happens to be white missionaries, white pastors, and white churches. Especially when juxtaposed with the Chinese, Black, and Hispanic churches that have been here for decades, this is the purest kind of exceptionalism, the kind that completely ignores the fact that there was anyone here before them, the kind that “discovers” San Francisco, the kind that “brings the Gospel” to heathens, the kind that ignorantly destroys and undoes the faithful Gospel work that has been going on here since the freaking 1800s. God has a great plan for this city?? Wake up, Ben Houston—the plan started without you a long time ago, so guess what? You aren’t special. This city doesn’t need you. This city is fine without you. God has always been here and if you really listened, if you really understood where you were going, if you really did your research on the multitude of churches that have been here for over 100 years, you would know. You would know that God, the one we all profess to follow, the one who told you to come here and the one who told me to keep you out, yes that God, has always been here. This God understands this city, this God has been hurt by this city, this God has scars and dirt and callouses and this God, last I heard, is here for the long haul. Are you?
But perhaps I’m being too strong. After all, Ben Houston had a “stirring in his spirit and his heart for this.” God has spoken to the man. And what did God tell Ben Houston? Apparently these are the two scriptures that Ben Houston heard from God:
Isaiah 54:2-3
Enlarge the place of your tent, stretch your tent curtains wide, do not hold back; lengthen your cords, strengthen your stakes. For you will spread out to the right and to the left; your descendants will dispossess nations and settle in their desolate cities.1 Chronicles 4:9-10
Jabez was more honorable than his brothers. His mother had named him Jabez, saying, “I gave birth to him in pain.” Jabez cried out to the God of Israel, “Oh that you would bless me and enlarge my territory! Let your hand be with me, and keep me from harm so that I will be free from pain.” And God granted his request.
This literally makes me sick to my stomach.
Where do I even begin? Your descendants will dispossess nations and settle in their desolate cities? Enlarge my territory? Territory?? Keep me from harm so I’ll be free from pain??
Ben Houston, do you really think dispossess is a great word for a city whose main concern right now is outsiders coming into the city and LITERALLY DISPOSSESSING people of their homes? Do you think San Francisco is territory for you to claim? Do you really want people to take you seriously when you ask to be free from pain in an age where the rich hop on luxury buses while poor folks are stuck on public transit? Do you really think this process will be painless? Do you think love comes without a cost? Do you think Jesus is down with your painless march towards the dispossessing of communities? But all this is ok since God told you, right?
Does anyone think that this is anything new?
Ben Houston has pulled the age-old theological sleight of hand that has enabled all colonial destruction that has occurred in the name of Jesus: He has positioned himself in the place of Biblical Israel within the Biblical narrative, effectively positioning Hillsong Church as God’s chosen people to bring their exquisite salvation to the rest of the world, by any means necessary. It also means, to be clear, that the strategic cities of the world, of which San Francisco is one, are the Promised Land, filled with milk, honey, and slow drip coffee, destined to fall into the hands of God’s chosen people. And San Francisco’s residents, of course, are the Canaanites, to be driven out, destroyed, raped, murdered, and pillaged for our resources.
This deeply flawed theological vision is called supersessionism, and it is the reason Christianity itself lies at the very heart of world oppression. Like it or not, Christianity is the reason nations have been exploited, people have been enslaved, and communities have been robbed of their culture and personhood. It was in the name of Jesus that Europe colonized, fueled by evangelistic zeal, emboldened by the same scriptures quoted by Mr. Houston. In that sense, European Christians were utterly faithful: they certainly dispossessed nations, they certainly made cities desolate before resettling them, they certainly claimed territory, and they certainly believed, with all their hearts, that they were blessed by God to be a blessing to the nations.
My problem is not that these passages in the Bible exist. I believe that God’s Word is authoritative and true. I believe that God was certainly concerned with land and people and territory. My goal is not to simply close my eyes and pretend that these verses don’t exist. But when scripture is misused, especially when it is misappropriated towards oppressive ends, we end up with a group of people who believe that gutting communities of their identities is synonymous with evangelism. This is nothing new. This supersessionist theology drove European Christians in the 1400s to colonize, white American Christians in the 1800s to absolutely steamroll Native peoples on their way to Manifest Destiny, and it empowers missionaries today, including our beloved Hillsong Church, to “dispossess nations” in order to “resettle” them as colonies of God’s Kingdom. Hillsong has fallen victim to a supersessionist vision of the world, dismissing Biblical Israel and positioning themselves as God’s chosen people, ignoring the social conditions that make God’s promises to oppressed Israel vastly different than what Ben Houston expects God to do for filthy rich Hillsong in filthy rich San Francisco. What Ben Houston fails to recognize is that in this schema, Hillsong is more akin to Babylon than it is to Israel, and its occupation of the land is a violation of God’s plan, not a fulfillment of it.
If Hillsong thinks their movement to the West Coast is some kind of Manifest Destiny, they are greatly mistaken. This is not the Promised Land. But if Ben Houston is some kind of busted Australian Joshua who wants to spy out the land, then come on. We’re here. We’ve been here for decades. But you will not dispossess us. You will not be free from pain. You will not occupy this territory. Instead, you will honor it. You will come and sit at the feet of Black, Latino, and Asian American elders. You will not say a word. You will do this for years, until those elders say you’re ready. This is not your Promised Land. We are not your Canaanites. In fact, we are your brothers and sisters. So treat us like it. Don’t insult us with your cheaply made videos and empty, idealistic prayers. Don’t offend us by believing that you of all people will usher in anything new of God. God is doing more than you know and he doesn’t need a damn thing from you. If you really wish to come here, then you will do so in humility, you will do so like Jesus, stripping yourself of all power and becoming a servant. You will join us in genuine communion. You will repent. And when we are ready, we will walk with you.
The Jesus I know chose the foolish of this world to shame the wise, the weak to shame the strong, the poor to shame the rich. Hillsong Church is on the wrong side of redemption. I’m not mad at them, because I am too. The Kingdom does not belong to us. When will we realize this? It is in the hands of those silenced, those poor, those hopeless folks who we are so quick to dispose of, the ones who might lose their homes or see their families disband when rich folks like us move into the neighborhood. We all need to repent. Hillsong Church in its current state takes us nowhere near this vision. Have mercy on us sinners, Lord, us colonizers, us greedy broken people, and may your Kingdom come, ushered in not by me, not by Hillsong or any other church, but by the poor Galilean who had no place to lay his head, who occupied no territory but a cross. Come Lord Jesus.
Edit: I realize the video uses a different translation of Isaiah 54, something I did not see until after publishing the post. Ben Houston’s version says “your descendants will occupy other nations and resettle the ruined cities.” This does not change my argument.
Thank you so much for this powerful post…. I’m gonna be tweeting it all day!
Thank you!
Hmmmm……My response to the article as well as all these posts is not in defense of Hillsong Church or to champion natejlee’s position! The point is Jesus and Him crucified! Just because Nate you are angry at what you see is totally the wrong approach, just because you see a lot of mega churches as power hungry, poor people stomping, who are intentionally coming into cities to force poor people out of their homes, doesn’t mean that is the truth! Honestly your article really comes across as “us vs. them”, with an attitude of aggorance and it reminds me of the kid during the neighborhood street game who gets mad and goes home because ALL other kids are wrong and he’s not playing until they do it “his way”. This is not to suggest that you do not have valid points in your argument, but it is to suggest the way in which you have written about it does not seem at all to be the way in which CHRISTIANS should handle these types of issues! So, unless “they” contact you first, unless “they” step down from “their” powerful positions, unless “they” see their need to learn from “you” the heck with “them”. And the gospel suffers because of it! God is so in control and people are not! To judge someone else’s motives by what you already perceive by watching a video and then ranting about it is not the way to show the world that we are one body with many different gifts, seeking to exalt the name of Jesus. Stop making it “us(always doing it right, poor, displaced, trodden upon), vs “them(always power wielding, not caring about poor, always doing it wrong,) argument. Whether it’s Hillsong or any other desired church plant, whether it’s San Francisco any other poor cities, Can the dialogue change to WE? Both reach out to the other with an attitude of humility, BOTH acknowledge that they can not totally know the mind of Christ concerning ministry and how to do it??? What’s important is that Christ is preached and that the lost come to know him as they see ALL Christians striving together in LOVE for the gospel!
thanks for putting into words what many of us on the ground don’t have time to do. Word up from the Town.
Thanks neighbor. Keep fighting!
Standing ovation. I was looking at a colonial map of Africa on google (run across by accident) and it really disturbed me.. I flipped to facebook and saw your post and you nailed the unsettled “yuck” feeling I had perfectly. (not trying to put words into your post, of course!)
“Yuck” is a great word for it!
San Franciscans already voted for this brand of christianity, if you look at the churches in which they caucus. Especially the natives who left churches that serve baos for those that serve espresso.
Yeah you’re right man… I know they miss the baos though.
Nate,
Your comments are much appreciated. Hopefully Hillsong will enter this City with humility and a heart for the disadvantaged. Although this video does seem ill-advised to many of us, the testimony of Hillsong is that God has moved through their ministries; let’s hope that they can reach our city too!
If there is one thing that we must agree on it’s that there are many in SF who still need to meet our Lord. There are many who don’t know God’s love, don’t know his invitation to join His family and our fellowship. Those who do not know includes those who are being displaced and those who are gentrifying. The Messiah is for not only the Israelites, but also the Gentiles; this means the Roman (oppressors) and the Israelites (the oppressed). In other words, the work in SF is far from completed, and I am ready to welcome my fellow co-laborers into this city. I will work side-by-side with them; hopefully from me they will learn that this is a broken City that needs humble leaders. I cannot wait to see how God uses them to speak to me.
I would caution you to not claim SF as your domain; it is unclear why Hillsong must come here and “sit at [our] feet” and wait for us to “say [they]’re ready.” This is not our land; this City needs Jesus–not us. We are not the sole messengers of God’s love; He can use a donkey to spread his Word if He chooses. If we are the Canaanites in the promised land, let’s welcome in Joshua! Why are we not ready to walk with Hillsong?
I for one am more than willing to be “insult[ed]” by Hillsong’s videos and prayers if it means that more will know Jesus. I hope that Hillsong reaches thousands in this City, even if those thousands of new converts are either “white” or gentrifiers.
Thanks again for your voice. Hillsong does have much to learn and I hope they seek communion with the many faithful ministries in this City. Maybe you and Ben Houston should get lunch?
Ishi, thanks for your thoughtful comment.
Co-laborers, partners, friends, absolutely. If Hillsong wants to genuinely be co-laborers and partners, I would love that. But partnership and Jesus-shaped unity have much to do with power. If Hillsong does not surrender power (financially, racially, leadership-wise, branding-wise, etc), then faithful small churches get stomped out. If city renewal is truly the goal, then this simply doesn’t make sense.
But you bring up a great point – gentrifiers, transients, they need Jesus too. Absolutely. But the San Francisco Church has to have a hard conversation about what discipleship means for transient folks. To me, a transient church is an oxymoron. Church in its nature must be rooted. We aren’t having these conversations. This post is a first step; we all need to start talking, listening, discussing, praying, lamenting, even folks who disagree, especially with folks who disagree. Be blessed friend.
“The Kingdom does not belong to us.” – Therefore as a part of the collective “us”, you don’t have any business judging the gospel efforts of another church! I assume you know all the entire history of this church to back up all the intolerant statements found within this piece? Is that Hillsong’s history – oppression?
I don’t disagree with your statements of a presence of churches for decades already in SF. But if they’ve been there so long, why is there still a need to help the people of the city? Should they have long ago accomplished all you claim the church should be about? No? Then why not welcome another part of the “The Kingdom [that] does not belong to us”?
My statements are general in nature, because, I don’t live there. But I find a lot of assumptions being made.
“I don’t live there.” I think you should have stared with that.
“I don’t live there” – said one Apostle Paul, and the church didn’t get planted in other nations.
“I don’t live there” – said Peter and the church would never have left Jerusalem and Judea.
“I don’t live there” – Said the Son of God, and we never would have hope.
so… Brian Houston is as qualified as Paul, Peter and Christ to make the call that the City needs him? Man, I dunno.. from what I understand their decision had a ton to do with data about online users and music purchasers. Paul, Peter and Jesus didn’t have a Google Analytics heat-map to pinpoint their influence.
I hope for the best with Hillsong in SF. I really do. But I’m not about to throw this writer’s frustrations and fears to the side in some blind hope that “things will work out” because “God is in charge.”
“Is that Hillsong’s history – oppression?”
Define ‘oppression’? Have you talked to Hillsong’s thousands of victims stung and destroyed by their Word of Faith and Health and Wealth heresies? What about their victims from their ‘Mercy Ministry’ abuse?
Have you talked to the victims who were sexually abused by Hillsong founder Frank Houston and then shunned by Brian Houston in his attempt to cover up his fathers paedophilia crimes?
[…] NateJLee […]
[…] Hillsong in SF […]
Brian Houston got those scriptures from Bruce Wilkinson and his book The Prayer of Jabez, which hit evangelical churches in the early 2000s. The theology of this book is straight out of name-it-and-claim-it prosperity doctrine. God wants to bless you, and praying like Jabez will make it happen. *gag*
These evangelical megachurches are built around American corporate practice. The pastors shell out thousands to attend “leadership” conferences with church-growth consultants who teach seminars on how to develop marriage counseling programs, plant multi-site campuses, and–most importantly–get everyone sacrificially giving so the empire can be supported. The bigger you can grow your church, the bigger your built-in audience for your latest book or the worship band’s newest CD, and the more conferences you are paid to speak at. Locations for a new site are strategically chosen based on demographics–where there are enough people, wealth, and lack of other large churches to support a 2,000+ member congregation. I’d bet $50 that Houston’s decision was hammered out behind closed doors with a well-paid consultant.
Have you ever noticed that nearly all of these megachurches have the same programs? Similar membership covenants? And that virtually none of those programs involve things like homeless outreach or drug rehab? Or how all these megachurch pastors seem to know each other?
Some might wonder why that is.
Yup. I don’t see a lack of homeless outreach or drug rehab programs but a refusal to recognize that mental illness is real and that white priveledge is real. You can’t make real change without the acceptance of those two.
I find it sad that so many stones are being cast at Hillsong based on assumption and without fact. I don’t attend Hillsong at present because I don’t live nearby but I know from personal experience that they make significant contribution to the community through many ground level programs and out reaches. Examples include, but are not limited to: food hampers for low income families; care packages for women and children in refuges; food and support for homeles; directly funding the rescue of young girls and women from sexual slavery; delivering programmes into school to build self esteem in young girls and boys etc.
There are some very valid points in this article but I’m sure there are many people who would sit on both sides of the fence. I do think however, that it is for God to judge the works of those who profess to work in His name… and I have no doubt He is the only judge who truly knows the motivation of ALL of our hearts.
Hi Rahvi. Thank you for sharing your knowledge on what kind of services Hillsong provides. It’s given me the idea that Hillsong could have a place to serve in San Francisco.
The established, small, ethnic, community oriented type of churches in the SF Bay Area has served the area for many years. However their long history of service might not have completely solved the issues that plagued the area for as long as they’ve known (i.e. homelessness, low income family needs, etc). Hillsong’s presence could fill gaps in community service where older, established churches are unable to fill. This is why I think there could be a place for Hillsong in SF. But they cannot replace the already established churches. I do agree with Nate that Hillsong needs to talk and walk with the established church elders in the SF area because I don’t think Hillsong can be successful unless they are strategic by working with who is already there.
Soo many sweeping assumptions. Hillsong don’t need consultants they are the global leaders at Church planting and growth. Are you aware that Hillsong have church plants in Kiev, France, Stockholm, Germany, Amsterdam, Copenhagen and Germany? Some of the most un churched cities on earth.
YES.
Or maybe God will use them greatly to reach people who have yet to meet Jesus. I think maybe what we do need is more churches and less Christians criticising each other on the Internet. John 13:15
Totally agree with you Adam. As much as I would like to find things wrong with them, do I really think I’m any better? I think we need to be humble, examining our own hearts first, as Christians, and leave the rest to God. Our bickering and condemnation will only give more reason for those outside the faith to shut Jesus out. It is critical that we are unified, in spite of our differences, and that we welcome them as Jesus would have us do, since he loved us warts and all.
Oh disgusting. The last thing we need is another evangelical church.
Evangelism is incredibly hard in Sydney. You can’t mention your faith and say ‘Jesus’ without people getting agitated, accuse the church of stealing your money, accuse people of blindly submitting to the leader and ending the discussion that the church is a cult – before you can get a word in. Where do they say they get this idea from? Hillsong.
Was it the media that gave these people these ideas? No. They confess they were duped by the lies of Hillsong or otherwise are dealing with someone, a family member or friend who are “brainwashed” by Hillsong. Please – research these guys before more lives are destroyed. They try read how people perceive them and keep changing their skin. They are more liberal these days but will default back to Word of Faith and even Seeker Sensitive to suit people’s perceptions. They’ve got a good marketing arm to tell you that.
Brother Adam, it’s certainly possible! And I don’t doubt that God would in fact work through Hillsong if they come here. You probably know the inner workings of this better than I do, since you have a Hillsong email address. We both probably have our biases…
Which is why I don’t necessarily feel the need to prove anything to you. We’re coming from different places, which is totally fine. I don’t think “more churches” is the answer, because I don’t see a value for quantity-over-quality in God’s character. I also don’t mind criticizing Hillsong, as long as I’m willing to take it from folks like you. The church’s history of genocide, destruction, and cultural cleansing, in my mind, is worth criticizing. When I see it happening in the church today (and I do, every Sunday), I feel compelled to call it out.
Unity is costly, particularly for the ones who possess great power. The valleys shall be raised and the mountains shall be brought low so that we can all be on level ground when the Kingdom comes. Hillsong finds itself on a powerful mountain. Jesus-shaped unity demands the surrender of this power. This is the invitation to your church. Be blessed brother.
This is such a beautiful post. For what it’s worth, I attend Hillsong. The North American church has been colonizing Sydney for years. They love its koalas, its Harbour Bridge, and they even turn up at Hillsong’s campus in their thousands and under the guise of their role as college students they displace Australian congregation members, and I sit here in the gay heartland of Sydney working amongst Aboriginal Christians who feel displaced and lost, thinking “oh my gosh, how do I reconnect and reconcile with my neighbours who hate me”? The thing is, I do have hope because of posts like yours. Perhaps we can together join our hearts and voices, and dialogue to learn what is God’s and what is simply ours. Oh, I need a heart of flesh, not one of stone. Thank you so much for your reminder.
Great, loving response, Tanya. Bottom line is that God looks at the heart. When we judge others we open ourselves up to be judged, even if we are standing up for what we believe to be the truth. When we return to love, our eyes are opened to see what God sees, and it’s not always pleasant.
Notice: Tanya hasn’t given you the facts of Hillsong. She is being careful with her words. It is safe for her to say, “I don’t believe”. It means no one can accuse her being being dishonest when Hillsong starts undermining churches and their youth in local areas and causing division among churches and families. That’s what Hillsong did in Australia, what they did in Hillsong NYC and also what they are doing in their new South American church plants.
Interesting. Also a rumour that was spread in Los Angeles but this hasn’t proved to be the case. Church is messy, and I don’t doubt that some churches and youth groups can point to individuals that transferred to Hillsong. For that, I’m sorry, particularly for the pastors who felt their efforts have been ignored. But on the whole, the data shows us researchers that people are getting saved at Hillsong and transferring out to other churches at much higher rates than the other way. Cheers Jake.
You can’t talk jake. You operate a deceitful lying blog where none of you have the courage to use your real names! And you DARE call out Tanya? Good grief!
Jake you are wrong, wrong,wrong again, again and again. When Tanya says ” I don’t believe” the reason she chooses those word and believe me she chooses her words carefully, is because she is does not want to mislead anyone about what she is saying. She also does not want to assume her beliefs onto another party when strictly speaking they are hers.
“Jake you are wrong, wrong,wrong again, again and again.”
Do you know or have you researched Tanya? I have read MANY articles on her blog and have read her research on Hillsong. She is someone who falls into the category from what I’ve heard coined as a ‘Hillsong Apologist’. And that’s a shame, because Tanya is a very smart woman. Unfortunately, her research also contradicts what Hillsong claims to believe and do, although she too defends them. The point is, she will not say things matter-of-factly about Hillsong, even when people give her primary sources or empirical evidence. She knows the very thing she defends contradicts her findings. Sadly, Tanya will hide behind ‘I do/don’t believe’ to protect herself and her worldview, not because she cares about people. All of a sudden, the conversation is dictated around opinion rather than objective evidence, and the cleverest one at arguing wins. But I should leave Tanya alone because she comes across as ‘considerate’, ‘loving’, ‘authentic’, ‘genuine’ and ‘diplomatic’. Win the hearts – that’s how it works at Hillsong.
Tanya is friend of mine I know her personally. Now stop judging..it seems that is all you do to everything everyone…
Jake, I am not a “Hillsong apologist”. I am a scholar, and thus most of my work is peer-reviewed. I always state my location – currently an attendee at the church – thus disclaiming my interests and biases. I have completed my MPhil, and am now undertaking a PhD, both in Australian Pentecostalism. Thus, as I am a social scientist, I always have factual evidence for my research, and I make moderate claims, even critiquing the church at various points. I have in fact researched many primary sources. In addition, I constantly put forward my work to be countered by scholars who believe differently, within the bounds of the academy. However, your work at hillsongchurchwatch.com is actually what you accuse me of here. It is emotive, and claims insider information but is often wrong on multiple counts. It sits under a banner of Reformed theology but tolerates other views where necessary to further its aim of discrediting Hillsong members. It also incorporates the strangest apocalyptic nonsense. Sigh. It’s horrible that you are trolling me with personal, non-reasoned responses to my posts. Please stop.
Jake tell me….How does it feel getting your ass handed to you by a linguistic black belt with the truth on her side?
Tanya, thank you so much. I’m humbled by your words and I think your voice, so much more conciliatory than mine, is the kind that will ultimately sustain any bridges built between communities (rich/poor, hillsong/native, etc). If you read this comment, can you share a bit about how you understand your position between both worlds? Do you feel the need to convince aboriginal folks that you’re not as bad as they think? Do you feel the need to speak up in the hillsong space?
Hi Nate, honoured to respond… I’ve struggled at times over the years, that’s for sure. I’m not on staff, but have attended for over twenty-five years, and volunteered full time for 6. Also we pastored for 4 years in a smaller 65% Asian area church in Sydney, and my husband pastored in a local LA church for 2 years while I was studying my PhD. We now attend the inner city Sydney campus. With insider/outsider experience, my hope is that we could be honest about how certain models of church hurt, but also help communicate the gospel. There is no perfect church. But transformation is a core value at Hillsong, and that goes for the structures and missiologies as well as God’s interest in our “soulish” life; our heart and responses.
My fieldwork has been with Aboriginal pastors, and they are alternately angry and hopeful about their and the community’s relationship with the church. I’ve had various triumphs and devastating defeat in communicating back to Hillsong leaders the need to honour our first peoples. But it’s not just me, there are many passionate Hillsongers who the Spirit is calling to work on this, and I think the fight of pulling the ‘edges’ together is hard, but worth it.
If you’re into reading, Paulo Freire articulates benefits of transformative Pentecostal worship for the poor… and I don’t think any estimation of Hillsong as the rich is completely right; in our context the Anglican state church is the rich/locus of power, so this represents the middle class. House prices and cost of living in Sydney are insane, and yet the congregation continues to fund churches in the US… there are of course terrible ways this correlates with colonial endeavors, but it also relates to a “reverse mission” immigrant experience in this context. Perhaps it’s simultaneously both.
I know that Ben of all Hillsong’s leaders (despite comments on this thread) is capable of great kindness and has a large voice into the pastoral aspects of the US churches. I would be surprised if he refused opportunity sit with you (and pastors/leaders of colour in your city) to talk out your concerns. I’m also able to continue dialogue with you if helps (feel free to use tanyariches[at]gmail); I’m not promising things will change, but offering solidarity because you are our brother in Christ and you deserve honour for the work you have done in SF. My prayers are with you, and for the Spirit to do something miraculous in your city through this.
Tanya, amazing. And leaving me with a lot to think about. Thank you so much for this. Praying for/with you as well!
I’m completely repulsed by colonialist approaches to church planting. However, you chose a different translation of Isaiah 54 than the one Ben Houston used in the video to emphasize your point (changing “occupy” to “dispossess”). IMO, that’s not cool at all. It shifts your article toward mudslinging, not correction.
Erik, valid point. I watched the video, wrote down the verses, and just used biblegateway. I didn’t realize it until after I posted. Not an excuse, but the video made me so uncomfortable that I didn’t want to watch it again to double check. For me, it changes nothing about my argument. Nonetheless, I’ll add an “edit” portion to my post. Thanks.
Terrible article…great clip.
You don’t like the comment – We see great potential….Oh My Godzilla…does not our loving Father see great potential in us all – regardless of where we are at. He saw so much potential, he had so much love that he died for us…while we were sinners.
What potential for this city – a city that can reclaim its true identity, its original design – as sons and daughters of Papa – Daddy – Father God. Heis and co-heirs with Him. A city that can start to walk in the fullness that God has for them.
And like God spoke light in Genesis when He was in the middle of an earth that was formless, empty and dark – our God spoke what he could see…not what He was in.
Hillsong is being what we are all called to be – like our Father in heaven…speaking out what they see…not what they find themselves in.
Seriously….good on you Hillsong for getting in, getting your hands dirty and having a go. Continue to speak life, love and hope – the way Father sees it – not the way man does!!
Andrew, thanks for the comment. I hope Godzilla is not coming to SF, because that would be an even greater problem. But it’s actually not a bad metaphor for what’s happening.
Hillsong’s hands are as clean as a freshly showered baby’s bottom. God created this city and each of its inhabitants. We’re all made in the image of power-surrendering, self-giving, triune God; I don’t need Hillsong to show me this.
Take care, friend.
You seem to have more faith in Hillsong Andrew to bring salvation to San Francisco than having faith in God to do the saving. Why is that?
Jake…certainly not.
But I guarantee that the smallest percentage of people go to church in SF. Therefore there us ALWAYS room for another church plant.
The truth is that the strength of the Christian Church is it’s diversity. Where one church may attract some, another church will attract those that the first church does not…and so on and so forth.
Together, as a United family, we are the church. It’s never about right or wrong, but rather the word different.
And in that difference we win the world…one soul at a time.
“Together, as a United family, we are the church.”
The church should be united. But it also should be united against cults that are trying to undermine Christ’s mission and message.
Hillsong has been very successful in doing this. They preach a false gospel, present a false faith and religiously twist the scripture. It’s not that hard to spot. Just review a sermon of Brian Houston. He is very brazen with his deception.
“It’s never about right or wrong, but rather the word different.”
It is about right and wrong – knowing right from wrong and knowing right from almost right is called discernment. But we can embrace differences – as long as they remain within orthodoxy. Hillsong do not even com close to orthodoxy. Just look at what comes out of the mouth of Brian and Bobbie Houston. Test what they say against the bible.
Hillsong is just one more in a long line of church planting efforts in SF and Silicon Valley seeking to harness the “world changers” and change the world through them. They come with conference-fueled bags of tricks and seemingly good intentions to plant their flag and say they did it for God. What most discover is that people here are common, broken like everywhere else. Pastoral work is farming, painstaking work, not systems-think and “3 How-To’s to Do It Like I Did It”, so most fail or fall away. The same is true for the occasional “Take the Bay Back for God” programs that pester pastors and waste time and resources. I think it’s best for everyone to work their corner of the vineyard, pastor the people God brings and daily thank Him for the opportunity to love others in His name.
Dean, thanks for your comment. I think you’re totally right. I don’t mind churches crossing lines in the vineyard to join in genuine communion with one another – in fact, this is my greatest hope. But when someone crosses from their corner of the vineyard to mine, they better not stomp on my grapes!
Wow that sounds angry! Heaps of pastors church plant in cities. 99% of them have no profile such as Hillsong but never the less your comments could be aimed at some of them as well. Instead of anger phone him up and welcome him to the city and ask if there is anything you can do for him. Then take him to coffee and love on him. There could come a day when you will need each other. Love and blessings. Ian
Ian, thanks for the comment. If you got Ben Houston on speed dial, let me know! You’re right though – I’m mad. But I’m ok with it. I don’t mind being mad because I know what’s at stake. I might need Ben Houston down the road, absolutely, but he also needs the direction, guidance, and support of the pastors here who have a hundred times more wisdom than he does.
I agree with you totally though – this isn’t really about Hillsong. It’s about all of us and the posture we take when entering into new spaces and community.
Take care brother.
The Apostles tell Christians are not called to fellowship with darkness. The Apsotles instruct us to siltent those who hurt entire families and cause strife and division. We are to expel the wicked from among us for the sake of honouring Christ’s name. We are told to watch out for wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Why on earth would a Christ follower welcome a wolf among the sheep? That will only end in disaster.
“Help the poor, seeking the hopeless folks, caring for the least”
Are you doing this in the city of San Francisco? If you are its a good shot but if your not it would be shame to criticize in such offensive judgement thrown words without realizing that one’s daily life is to do such comfort-zero life and to live as follower of Christ
Lets not question Hillsong but look to ourselves. Are we actually helping, caring, loving to the extent of giving one’s life for the ‘one’ person?
Sam Lee! Your comment pokes at my insecurities – why you gotta do that? If you must know, I work at an agency in San Francisco called Chinatown Community Development Center. As an organization, we are doing a lot of policy-level work to fight off gentrification in San Francisco. I, however, provide direct services as a social worker for public housing residents in Chinatown. Before that, I worked as a mental health/substance abuse counselor in Golden Gate Park… Did I pass your test?
At the end of the day though, it doesn’t matter what I do, and it doesn’t matter whether or not I can *prove* to you whether I’m legit or not. My search of consistency and congruency is a lifelong battle – of course I want to practice what I preach, but is all well as long as I’m doing social work? Of course not. Social work doesn’t make me more loving or centered or compassionate. Just know that this post came out of my story. Peace.
Thats awesome to know. I applaud your genuine heart to really speak truth. Jesus really had time when he rebuked, he was thr best person to do it with both truth and grace, one thing though really striking for Jesus is he never condemned anyone. What im worrried is the language being used in these blog spaces, messages should be delivered not only by words alone but spoken words are actually better in carrying the spirit, heart and emotions of the speaker.
Your words in the blog dont really translate well the worry and message from the heart. It rather conveys like an angry person , getting mad unto other christians.I feel sorry that I know that you are speaking from the love of Christ as it is our responsibility to discern, test and approve, im worried these words you say will create division and unbelief to the people who have experienced and followed Jesus through Hillsong Church.
I wanted to encourage you to have a patient heart and see what God has for this church and the city.
Our God is greater , I believe he will push forth his glory in SF through you and all the churches.
Lets wait, test and approve the perfect will of God. Lets be slow to anger, slow to judge.
Thanks I hope these words gets through to all who are worrying.
Please notice the common thread for those defending Hillsong: “Just shut up”.
“LETS NOT QUESTION HILLSONG but look to ourselves.” This is why they are a cult. You cannot question them. Think badly of them. It’s the worst sin you can commit.
I’m not from San Francisco, but in New York City we also face issues of churches/organizations coming into communities, contributing to greater issues of gentrification and income inequality, in favor of the indoctrination of entire communities. Amazing critique, which offers a very important prompt: the difference between planting a church, and colonizing a community.
It’s a thin line!! Keep fighting in NYC, friend.
Too late. We’ve already had someone come in to “save” SF. The most recent was Fr. Joseph Illo. As SFGate quoted, “in preparing to come to San Francisco he wrote in a February 2014 blog post that he was about to enter the ” beautiful but savagely distorted cultural maelstrom that is the ‘Baghdad by the Bay.’”” We don’t need more colonizers coming in to “save the savages.” If you want to visit, pull a shift volunteering at St. Anthony’s or the Gubbio Project, fine. But then kindly go back wherever you’re from. We’re already drowning in people who think that our perfect life is just an app away. We don’t need Hillsong too.
Reminds me how much I dislike rootless and clueless evangelical salesmanship churches who are holding the first annual anything.
Yeah, you are probably overreacting. this is obviously happening and now you have quite publically prevented yourself from being able to shape a healthier culture of a new church when it does.
Or… instead of a lengthy blog post criticizing their plans, y’all COULD pray for them, and ask God to lead and guide them, and bless their efforts. Starting a new church planting effort is not anything new and everybody knows it’s not easy. There’s no guarantee of success. Perhaps they start the project with pie-in-the-sky, starry-eyed ideas, but then there’s ALWAYS the reality of the rubber hitting the road. That hard reality brings us to our knees, which is a good place to be. It’s the right place to be.
God bless them!! Who are we to say whether God really spoke to them or not? It’s not our place, and it’s not our business.
THANK YOU !!! Seriously this was so rude ! Instead of being thankful that churches are being opened and are trying to make a difference you talk so bad about Ben Houston as if you knew him .
This isn’t a church being opened. This is a cult being opened. They lure Christians into their movement through their popular music. They often take church’s youth. Hillsong will present themselves as avante garde and cutting edge and make churches around them feel inadequate unless they got on board with what Hillsong is doing in the community. This is division. This is rude. This is unloving. The most loving thing to do is to be outspoken against cults that divide the church, destroy communities and hurt families and individuals.
Annie, thank you for your comment. My criticism of Hillsong and my prayers for them are not mutually exclusive. I’m prayin! But I have no problem forcing the issue, and forcing it angrily – I want the rubber to hit the road before they get here because there are hard conversations that need to be had prior to the first brick being laid. But you’re right – this isn’t just about Hillsong, it’s about the posture of all church plants, about how we enter new spaces so that everyone is honored in their God-ordained personhood and priesthood. If Hillsong will honor the personhood and priesthood of San Francisco Jesus folks, then I’m happy to work beside them, but not beneath them. Be blessed, Annie.
“Who are we to say whether God really spoke to them or not?”
We are Christian. That’s how we can know if God spoke to them or not. If you knew your faith/bible, you’d have some ounce of discernment to actually test if God speaks to them or not. It is our place – we are in Christ. If Christ has WARNED us about false prophets, then we are being disobedient to Him if we ignore him. Testing Brian and Ben is our business.
Thankfully, there are good sites out their that have helped may Christians help grow in discernment and see that these men are not of God. You can pray for these false teachers salvation – first and foremost. And if you ever see them, they must be reached with the saving gospel of Jesus Christ.
Hahaha rant…so many self contradictions… Don’t play the devil’s advocate, he already has plenty of them
This seriously pisses me off. Christians bringing down other Christians. We are suppose to be supporting each other and be thankful that churches are being opened. People act like they know Ben Houston but they don’t. I don’t myself but I take part of Hillsong LA and have seen all the good it has been doing for homeless people and families.
People are so blind . Be thankful a church is being opened up not ANOTHER JAIL or strip club. I grew up in church and one thing I learned is that some Christians are WORSE then people who don’t go to church!
You go Ben Houston open up all the churches you want change this world! Let’s make it a better place !
Hi Mel! Thanks for the comment. I agree, Christians shouldn’t bring down other Christians, and this is exactly what I’m protesting. Hillsong’s arrival brings down, dismisses, and tears apart the faithful work of churches that have been here for centuries. I want to work with Hillsong, I want to partner with them, but they have to want to work with us, they have to listen to us, to hear us out, to submit to the folks who have a lot more wisdom than they do. If that happens, then we all thrive, then the Holy Spirit is the tide that lifts all boats.
I DEFINITELY don’t want a jail or strip club, so you’re spot on with that one. And if I had to choose between Hillsong and a jail, well, Hillsong it is. But that’s not the choice I’m faced with right now. The choice is: Hillsong coming to SF in humility or Hillsong coming to SF to crush local ministries. My choice is made.
“People act like they know Ben Houston but they don’t.”
Jesus claims eternal life is when “man may know His God”. We don’t need to know Ben Houston personally. However, we can objectively test if he is saved based solely on if he knows God. I am not prepared to say if he does or does not know Jesus personally – but that’ll be evident to those who know God’s Word and seeing if Ben even comes close to knowing God’s Word.
This is an amazing article. I suspect that the problem most of the commenters are having is that “colonizing” is so much a part of the evangelical mindset still that it’s difficult to separate it from spreading the gospel. Everything goes as long as people are “getting saved”… right? I’ve seen it time and time again, people, places, other churches, families, all play second fiddle to the overarching goal of “reaching” people and can cheerfully be steamrolled. Until evangelicals can move beyond seeing people and cities as a notch in a spiritual conquest belt, nothing will change.
Absolutely agree, John. It’s so ingrained that we’re blind to it.
Maybe instead of analyzing the shit out of his vernacular and sifting through the messiness of this article we can have humility to hear our brother and assume it’s a valid perspective FIRST. Your church is probably preaching right now on the “unattainable image of perfection” releasing you to let god accept you “as you are”. Let’s do the same with Nate. Also, what’s the problem with questioning or even criticizing Hillsong? I think the point is people see the great videos, hear the music, see the glitzy glow and they just accept it – never taking the time like Nate did to seriously question it. Its not based in fear. Its a grounded educated perspective that we should shut up and listen to. We all bought all of Hillsong’s records and books and videos without a blink. We are effectively putting our money where our mouth is and where our hearts are. We’re funding this without knowing if it’s agreeable.
“I think the point is people see the great videos, hear the music, see the glitzy glow and they just accept it – never taking the time like Nate did to seriously question it. Its not based in fear.”
This is very true. I recently heard a video from a Hillsong leader claiming “I am afraid to miss out on what God is now doing right now. I do my best to keep up.” That’s a good way to describe how Hillsong blindly and emotionally control people to stay on board. Keep them busy, tired and fearful. I am not a liberal but think what Nate has to say is incredibly valid.
[…] brings us to Hillsong. In an article entitled Hillsong Church: Do Not Colonize San Francisco, Nate Lee responds to a video posted by Ben […]
Nate, You are a great writer — but you have terrible perspective. Jesus came to seek and save the lost — at no point in the journey of any Hillsong church has there ever been a plan to “dispossess” anyone. Our job as Christians is to love on humanity in the way that He would (this blog does none of that). To simply put it dont sit at your computer and criticize someone that you don’t know anything about. I’m not sure what your intention of this blog was — not sure if it was to turn people away from going to Hillsong Church or to not like Ben Houston – but whatever your intent was I pray that God gives you a revelation of who He (Jesus) really is. Regardless of what you think, God has a plan for San Francisco – I was born in the Bay Area and I still have family there. I pray that Hillsong Church brings the LOVE and CHARACTER that Jesus showed throughout the gospel. Praying for you man – I think God has huge plans for you and to use your writing skill in an incredible way.. But this blog was a waste of that talent!
MW, thanks for the compliment – I’ll take it! I agree with you a billion percent: our job is to love humanity as we have seen it displayed in the person of Jesus. To me, this means always, definitively placing ourselves on the margins of society and standing with the oppressed. This post comes out of that experience, those prayers, and those discussions I’ve had as I have placed myself there. I’m happy to waste my talents on these people and this blog!
Be blessed friend
“God has a plan for San Francisco”
Yes – God is testing who are His and who aren’t by sending false prophets. If Hillsong is rejected by the church’s of San Francisco, then the church’s of San Francisco are faithful to God’s Word. Everyone, please research how Hillsong started. This is not a church – it is a full-blown cult that demands it’s followers bend the knee to their pastors/prophets vision. If you question them or raise genuine concerns, you get the types of comments, attacks or sledges that can absolutely destroy your credibility.
Hi Nate,
Before I say anything, I just want to say thank you for a thoughtful response and that I really do echo your sentiments and concerns with Hillsong SF coming. I personally was not that excited mainly because of the watered-down Gospel that they preach in the name of “relevance” that basically has no transformative power in peoples’ lives, but that’s another matter…
I have to say though, that despite some legitimate concerns, this response is pretty unbiblical in attitude and character for a couple reasons:
You cannot DEMAND humility. Isn’t it ironic (and prideful) to call out someone’s lack of humility by pridefully demanding it?? I think it’s perfectly okay to notice a character flaw and call them to repentance, but you have no biblical right to DEMAND that someone sit at your feet and basically “sit down and know your place.” That is SO unbiblical and ironic. Yes, Houston’s comments were ignorant and lacked much tact, but that doesn’t give you justification to basically tell someone that they can’t come here. Is there a certain type of “qualified” missionary that you allow here? Which brings me to my next point..
Do you own San Francisco, or does God? How are we okay with letting in Syrian refugees who might have intentions to blow up the city, but we’re not okay with letting in another church, a member of the Body of Christ, because they have iffy intentions? And trust me, I think you’re right about the blind ignorance and optimism, but you don’t have a biblical right to shut them out in protest and rise up in anger against them.
May I suggest a similar attitude to Paul said in Phillippians 1 as an example?
“Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill; the former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely…” (Let’s say this is them, in our eyes)… “What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice.”
Jesus also said in Luke 9:50 of someone trying to do the work of the Kingdom, Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.”
Maybe Hillsong can reach some people in SF that you can’t, Nate. And the right response of the Christian is to say, yes, they’re being a little foolish, but if they’re here to preach Christ, we rejoice and we welcome the missionary that comes in the name of the Lord. If they’re here to genuinely preach the true Gospel, then we should be rejoicing at the furtherance of the Gospel.
These are just a couple of the main points of concern I have with this response. Not to mention the implications of this attitude to foreign missions – what if the church in India or the Phillippines said “No, no one will ever come here until they understand the plight of the people, and if they do come, they will sit in total silence because they have nothing to offer.” What kind of attitude is that to a well-meaning brother or sister in Christ? How many of us have gone on missions thinking that we were bringing them something, only to realize that they taught us so much in return? That’s what I think is going to happen to Hillsong SF. I think they will come here and possibly “learn the hard way” about ministry here and I personally just wish them good luck, you know?
Again I’ll say this: you totally have the right to question Hillsong SF and you do have a right to raise concerns about the way they’re coming about the whole situation. But the way you do it should be of loving concern and NEVER with anger, offense, and bitterness. I would humbly submit this to you for your consideration because it brought me a great deal of sadness when I read this post. It’s got some good points, but to me, it’s done in the wrong spirit.
Thanks for hearing me out 🙂 Hope you’ve been well & I would love to catch up with you sometime 🙂 –Emily
Well said Emily. I totally agree with you. I love your humble and loving approach to all this.
Emily, gurl. I hope you know that I love you. But we both know that our paths have diverged miles apart when it comes to stuff like this. I’ll respond more as a way of processing my own thoughts through yours (and not to convince you of anything, because… yeah, not gonna happen haha). I appreciate your feedback, always. I will never set foot on your facebook because it would drive me crazy, but know that I will defend your right to speak on it.
You’re completely right though – San Francisco does not in any way belong to me. I don’t want it to; that’s way to great a burden to bear. Hillsong would reach tonsssss more people than I ever could, because, well, my church is kinda wack and doesn’t do a good job marketing itself. I don’t speak as someone who owns the city (I certainly realize that it can came across that way, oh well) – I speak as someone who has had enough conversations and prayers with the underserved to realize that if someone doesn’t speak up, then the poor get trampled. It’s already happened. This, ultimately, is everything. My “prideful demand” for Hillsong to humble themselves is – you nailed it – angry. I’m pissed. I’m pissed because poor folks, churches for folks of color, mentally ill folks, etc keep getting shafted by powerful people who have neglected to understand this city. This is an issue of power. I am leveraging whatever feeble power I have (this blog, my writing, my privilege, my education, etc) to angrily call into question the way churches use their power. My criticism of Hillsong is definitely a demand, but it’s also an invitation. Come, sit with those on the margins. In fact, submit to them, listen to them, learn from them, seek their approval, and see God in them. This is in line with everything I understand Jesus to be.
I actually, genuinely wish that before OG Christian missionaries went to the Philippines, they would have devoted themselves to deep study from local Pilipinos. Oh Lord, how I wish that would have happened first!! Because the Philippines have been RAVAGED by harmful missionaries. Look at the literature on it – Pilipino-Americans have articulated better than anyone else the mental, emotional, economic, and spiritual consequences of colonization. I wished more missionaries would stop before they went. I don’t think it’s worth it to “convert” people while you destroy everything else about what makes them loved by God. I don’t believe this is a loving kind of conversion.
Anyways, our friendship is worth much more to me than any of this. So yeah, if you wanna respond to this one, then feel free; I won’t respond. But I know and you know that we’re coming from verrrrry different sides of this. Take care dude. Talk to you soon.
We all live among different cries of God’s heart. Some universal, some particular to a time and place and people. Nate writes and speaks out prophetically from some universal and some particular cries of God’s heart, cries that have heard the passion and pain of people in a time, place, and moment, cries that are spiritual and political, cries that are gospel and kingdom. I don’t think he says them because he claims to be wise or to have superior knowledge, but because he spends time listening to those cries and prayers. They’re in the red words (and black ones) of the Scriptures; they’re in the humble witness of folks who have lived, served, and suffered in a city for generations; and they come from loving and travailing for Jesus’ church.
I cherish those cries that Nate is speaking from, and they sing from a part of God’s heart that the church desperately needs to attend to. They don’t contradict God’s heart to save, heal, and free… in fact, they’re inseparable from them.
Mr. Houston bears witness in his video to listening to God’s voice, humbly acknowledges not knowing how things will unfold (and maybe not knowing the city itself?), and expresses a desire for God’s unfolding plan in SF. If I had the privilege of sitting next to Mr. Houston, I would suggest that someone speaking loving truth from a place of hearing those universal and particular cries might be part of how God teaches you, a person of influence and responsibility in his church, to bear Christ’s name, to attend to our language and the story we tell as we try to follow his call. And as much as I’d have benefitted from learning from Mr. Houston’s teaching and ministry, I’d offer (if asked) that this is an instance when Paul’s attitude in 1 Cor 9 matters. Whether he agrees with some people’s cries or sentiments or not, if he cares about San Francisco, there’s a history where a certain narrative hurts, for good reason, and a conscientious ambassador of Christ would do well to listen.
Nate, you’re not just a good writer. You’re quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger, in my experience. After all, you only post on your blog once every three months or something 😉 But when you write, it wells up from prayers, time spent, sometimes tears, often study, and human relationships and conversations. This piece bears all the marks of that, so thank you for the risk it takes to speak from that.
And I’m also chastened, after reading your post, to work on my own listening. Grateful for you.
Yes!
Love you brother!
To me, it sounds like you have been hurt by the city, and feel like because you have whethered the storm you deserve to pastor in that city more than those who have not. To me, it sounds like hillsong is excited to be apart of Gods plan for the city, and you want to keep them out so you can personally play a bigger part in that plan. Your words are clearly not anointed from God, but hateful rooted in jealousy.
Kevin, thanks for the comment. This isn’t about “deserving,” it’s about understanding. It’s about how we define what it means to love a city. Deep understanding and real love come with time, listening, and dialogue. Hillsong hasn’t done this.
The only thing I might be jealous of is Hillsong’s musical talent and their finances. Since I will never be able to touch the levels Hillsong has reached in those areas, I’ve already accepted my fate. Take care brother.
Nate, I love this post. It’s everything great about you – from Darlene Zchsehlkjsshchhch to calling out Hillsong’s colonialism to defining supersessionism. Wow dude.
Having said that, I disagree with your main point. I think you’re WAY over-reacting and the colonialism imagery is over the top. There’s definitely an egomania to church planting that’s evident in Houston’s language and Hillsong is no exception but selfish ambition and kingdom ambition are not easily separable. Houston sees what I hope every church planter sees – a need that he want to address.
I’m also not convinced the video is truly evidence of a supersessionist perspective. His interpretation of Isaiah and 1 Chronicles is pretty self-centered but that’s not surprising given what he wants to do. I appreciate a guy who dreams big dreams for God.
I also have no problems with more churches being started in a secular city. They will probably draw the same target group Reality SF does – people who have moved to the city in the past five years. Are newcomers – the Twitter, Square, Uber, high-tech crowd – is this the San Francisco you’re talking about? Because that’s who Hillsong will likely reach. Your 135-year old church will reach a different group, most likely not the same people, which is fine. We need different churches for different groups of people.
So to say: “You will come and sit at the feet of Black, Latino, and Asian American elders. You will not say a word. You will do this for years, until those elders say you’re ready. ” That’s too much. Did your church do that when it first started? Does any church?
Lastly, you’re giving Hillsong too much credit. They’re going to do their thing and build their brand and have people come and all that – they will lead people who have never heard about Jesus to know Him and that’s awesome. They’re a group of Christians living out their faith in the best way possible. They may do it differently from how you you would approach it, they may misinterpret scripture but to respond in anger and disgust at what they’re doing – it’s as if they’re the WalMart of Christianity and I don’t find that an adequate metaphor.
Fred, get off my page! Always disagreeing with me and stuff… haha
Well, I didn’t say it earlier, but yeah I do think the Walmart comparison is appropriate. Yeah. But you’re right, my church didn’t start off in that kind of humble way, at least I don’t think it did, but I wish it did. Maybe then I wouldn’t have a Eurocentric Christianity that taught me how to hate good parts of my culture.
I’m still wrestling with the tech/transient/gentrifiers church thing. I realize they need Jesus, but I’m nto convinced that churches that attract transients know how to challenge their congregants to bring hope to the city in any kind of meaningful way. Not to mention, I think a “transient church” is an oxymoron.
But yes, I’m angry. And I’m ok with that. The colonial connections are stark for me, too stark to stay quiet and too stark to speak softly. But of course I’m sure we’ll have time to discuss this stuff further. Love your perspective and love discussing with you.
I have been attending Hillsong NYC for the past few years now, and the church that I have come to know and love doesn’t operate under white christian exceptionalism in any way shape or form, and by no means does Hillsong believe that they are the only ones capable of facilitating the gospel message. I would agree with your statements 100% if I wasn’t immersed in the culture of Hillsong Church, and if I didn’t know the hearts of the pastors and have knowledge about how the church operates. While the phrases seem imperialistic the language used to describe the San Fransisco church plant is the same language that the main pastor Brian Houston uses at his home church in Australia, and at all of the campuses across the globe. Every Sunday I hear both “The best is yet to come” and that “God has great plans for this city,” because he does. Hillsong is not saying that they are going to make San Fransisco great it’s already fabulous. No disrespect Bay Area you are much loved.
Good point Katrina. I’ve been to various Hillsong campuses around the world and their conferences as well and they truly preach the gospel. To me the main purpose is to bring people to Jesus first and the rest will follow: fighting for social justice issues, helping the underprivileged and under represented, etc. Jesus will transform souls to make the world a better place. And if Hillsong even helps one soul come to Jesus it will all be worth it.
“I’ve been to various Hillsong campuses around the world and their conferences as well and they truly preach the gospel”
Then tell me – what is the gospel? I have not once heard the gospel preached in Hillsong. Have people talked to the victims of this cult? Have people researched all the fantastic research and media articles out their exposing the scandals, theology and history of this cult? Have people read about how Brian Houston, founder of the movement, has been asked by a Royal Commission to be investigated by police because of covering up his fathers paedophilia? Guys. Having a sinister cult like this in any city is disastrous. Any mayor or government should seriously consider if they want the social issues and mess Hillsong often brings with it.
Hi Jake, they preach the gospel at every service which is that Christ gave his life for everyone and that he rose again. And that whosever believes in Him will be saved! Hillsong has an alter call at every service and has discipleship programs, Next Steps, to teach new believers about their new relationship with Jesus.
As far as scandals and the pedophilia case against Frank Houston (Brian Houstons father), the church has never been quiet about it and never tried to hide it. Brian Houston spoke about it at one of their conferences in NYC and he also talks about how he handled it personally and publicly in his book Live Love Lead and encourages other church leaders to live transparently.
I see that you’re accusing Hillsong of being a cult and I would tread carefully doing that whether you are wrong or right. I personally know of many people positively impacted by Hillsong church who are now leaders doing great things in life that help make this place a better world. Jesus said that his followers would be persecuted for his names sake. Don’t be a persecutor but rather someone who blesses.
Lee you Ignore Jake he is a bitter and twisted wanna be church-watcher! He operates a website called Hill$ong church watch where he posts lies and false testimony about Hillsong. I’m no fan of Hillsong, but Jake Elliot is just a hate filled blogger.
Oh thanks for the heads up Greg! I appreciate it!
“Hi Jake, they preach the gospel at every service which is that Christ gave his life for everyone and that he rose again.”
Then why is it when I talk to members who have been their for decades cannot tell me the gospel?
“I see that you’re accusing Hillsong of being a cult”
Well if the shoe fits… Have you seen what happens behind closed doors? The cover-up? Of course people aren’t happy when things precious to them are exposed. However, I keep reading story after story, tragedy after tragedy of people who get damaged by these places. Just read the story of Geoff Bullock who gave Hillsong it’s name and gave it it’s musical identity.
Once again you are listening to the critics and you are dead wrong. Hillsong will always have critics because they are so successful.
“Hillsong will always have critics because they are so successful.”
That’s a lie. Hillsong will always have critics because those critics are either:
1. Christians who believe the bible.
2. People who hold to morals.
3. People who operate from reason and reasonable conscience.
I’m not a hater – I am a Christian and I have had to help people abused by this cult. You will never see the truth behind the scenes of Hillsong leadership and how they deal with Christians who cling to the bible and not them.
The way that Hillsong market themselves is unethical and their sermons are used to manipulate and deceive people to get them to do what they want to do. Even the interviews I’ve seen on TV, Hillsong just blatantly lie – and the hosts seem to see through that.
It is very sad to see people defend Hillsong, shun criticism and not do their homework on such a dangerous international cult. We are called as Christians to be diligent with the truth and should be careful when we do cast judgment. Therefore, I applaud the above article because it does address the elitest and dominionist nature of the Hillsong empire.
“and by no means does Hillsong believe that they are the only ones capable of facilitating the gospel message”
What do you mean Katrina? I have been involved in churches that Hillsong openly and publicly condemns! I’m “traditional”, “religious”, “old” and “dead” according to Brian Houston. Hillsong are full of religious snobs that thumb their nose at Christian churches in Australia and – get this – absorb churches or steal the youth of other churches. They are driven by Dominionist and NAR ideologies, which explains why, from the outside, Hillsong leave a bad taste on local churches and non-Christian groups.
You have been reading too much from the “Hillsong Church Watch” website. The notion that Hillsong was founded on NAR idealogies is absurd. Hillsong does not condemn any churches never has never will.
“Hillsong does not condemn any churches never has never will.”
Then you haven’t been listening to Brian Houston’s sermons. He can’t stand traditional churches. However, when it comes to marketing themselves, they like using traditional buildings or earthy, nostalgic environments to give the impression they are timeless and embrace all churches equally. Fusing two conflicting ideas like that together is called branwashing. Not good.
“You have been reading too much from the “Hillsong Church Watch” website.”
No. I was taught both their NAR dominionist ideas AND (which I don’t get) their liberal agendas through their lecturers. I didn’t know that’s what it was at the time. Really creepy stuff. And Bobbie Houston has promoted the seven mountain mandate at their Hillsong conferences. She also released an add where she was talking about how “this” generation was going to usher in Christ’s return. It’s all there David. You don’t have to scratch that much to see it.
Read the article. I don’t think Christians should speak against other Christians. Every church has its unique reach for people. Your church will reach people Hillsong can’t and vice versa. We should all be on the same side and unite rather than cause division. The author has some good points but I don’t hear unity or blessing in it. Jesus rebuked his disciples when they told a group of people to stop using Jesus’s name to cast a demon out (Mark 9:38-41). I believe we should hear that and apply it to every church coming to SF and every church already here. They each serve a unique kingdom purpose. We will never understand how God called Ben Houston here and why. Gods calling rarely makes sense to us but once you hear it you gotta obey it. I gladly welcome Hillsong to SF because I know they are instrumental to a global revival. There’s no doubt in my mind that God is with them. I won’t be going there because God called me to a smaller church, House SF, but we’re fully supporting any church coming to SF in the name of Jesus!
This article sounds like an angry rant. I’m glad Hillsing is coming and I’m glad to see SF change
I love the passion you display for the disenfranchised and dispossessed in the Bay Area.
I also find it curious why Hillsong has decided to parachute into SF to save the day? I wonder how much it has to do with the financial gentrification of the area and the fact that the area is on the leading edge of making money, making tech, making culture and doing business.
If its greatest concern was reaching people in need of the life changing gospel, why not Hillsong Karachi? Hillsong Changsha? Hillsong Aceh? Hillsong Mogadishu? etc…America is overchurched already compared to 99% of the world. Why won’t Hillsong go lengthen their cords in the parts of the world that aren’t rich, aren’t white, but ARE mostly untouched by the Gospel?
Sadly, Hillsong SOMA seems to fit the branding so much better.
Hillsong have planted churches in Paris, Kiev, Stockholm, Germany, Amsterdam and Copenhagen to name a few. Don’t be so quick to judge there motives when you have not done your research. These are some of the most unchurched places on earth.
David, you tell me not to be quick to judge when I have not done my research. This is in itself presumptive, no? As for “judging”, I am in no position to condemn, only in a position to state facts and discern their meaning.
There is no black and white, Hillsong is not all good nor all bad. It is made up of and led by imperfect humans who, I presume, are my brothers and sisters in Christ as you are.
But exactly NONE of the places you mentioned – nor the places Hillsong exists – are even remotely close to the most unchurched places on earth. You might just get away with Tokyo as one instance where they are working in an unchurched place, and yet Tokyo and Japan in general 1) are wide open for missionaries 2) have freedom of religion 3) have a large and well resourced presence of both expat and national missions, ministries and church plants.
It would utterly ludicrous to insist that any of the places you state are some of the most unchurched places on earth. This is statistically verifiable. Hillsong do not go into unchurched places. They do the exact opposite of what Paul the apostle did when he insisted on pressing into places where there was no church so that he did not build on another’s foundation. Hillsong wedges its way into places where there are plenty of extant churches, and the majority of people attending Hillsong have migrated from other congregations (this is of course not unique to Hillsong and it is not like they should turn people away if those people choose to changes churches).
In fact, Hillsong is still, I believe, a part of the Assemblies of God. And the AoG is a global denomination of millions of people which also already has churches in all of the places you mention above, and probably in virtually every city that Hillsong has set up. Unless it was by the explicit invitation of the AoG, it is likely that Hillsong is cannibalising its own denomination of young people all over the world.
The fact that Hillsong does not move into truly unchurched and unreached areas, but focuses on cities like SF, London, even Tokyo, where there are hundreds of healthy churches, and the fact that they even move into cities where their own parent denomination is working is demonstrable evidence that they are not at all into reaching the unreached. The fact that they do not move into places that would normally be their textbook targets (e.g. Singapore, Redding) indicate the deals they have brokered with their favoured partners to not tread on those territories.
No, they are into brand expansion. Unquestionably and irrefutably.
I am certain they can couch this in breezy, positive language about what poorly interpreted passages God revealed to justify such strategy. And make lovely videos.
I am also certain that thousands of lives will be touched by the good ministry they certainly do.
I am certain that significant numbers of people will find the Lord as a result of their being in such places – even lots of people who would never otherwise go to church.
I am certainly that people will be blessed and God will be pleased by seeing transformed lives.
But like I said, there is no black and white and there is always a human element. And it is silly to insist that Hillsong are not about brand management. It is silly to insist that their focus is reaching the least churched places in the world. It is silly to insist that they are not predominantly moving into white, affluent, stable, tech-savvy, culture-leading cities. And there is no need to be silly.
Hillsong’s first International offshoot was London (not exactly the global bible belt), their 2nd international offshoot was Kiev in Russia(mmm interesting), 3rd was Paris. As you can see the early International church plants were clearly not based on ease of entry.
Jason, your comment is word for word almost exactly what some friends and I commented years ago on a story about Hillsongs take over of two churches, one in Brisbane and one in Melbourne Australia. Rather than the places you mentioned we asked why not Hill$ong ‘Hicksville’ or Hill$ong ‘Backwoodstown’ somewhere in the back of NSW or Victoria? Here at home Hillsong has a lot of questions going unanswered. The thing that gives me joy however is that I know several people who attend Hillsong…the winds are changing.
Wow, Nate. I agree that the cheesy video makes me sad, but don’t worry so much. In the thirty years I’ve lived here, we’ve seen a lot of “church planters” come and inflict their model on us and then leave. Many great people were involved and some stayed and loved the City even as the megachurch organizations pulled out. A couple of the churches that came planted deep roots and now they feel the joys and pains of this land. We become brothers even though we were born brothers.
At one point in the late eighties, a local pastor who had been here for a generation, made a comment to me about how tired it made him to have yet another young church/ministry planter show up with a plan to save the City that didn’t respect (or even acknowledge) the many years of ministry that have happened here. I hear you saying the same thing a generation later. Guess some things don’t change.
John, I don’t doubt that you’re right. This has been going on for a long time: San Francisco’s redevelopment plans are nothing new, and the church has often mirrored it rather than challenged it. I don’t plan on being on the wrong side of that, whatever ends up happening.
[…] been a lot of discussion about my friend Nate’s blog rant against the coming of Hillsong SF. A lot of people say, “Why not? Why are you so angry? […]
Hello Nate,
What a timely article for me personally. My soon-to-be wife and I are planning on planting a church campus in San Francisco this upcoming Fall, so it was interesting to hear the perspective of a local.
I was personally challenged by your article and by the dozens of comments I read to approach the city in humility. Although I pretty much grew up in SF, I have yet to sow tears into the city through prayer. I have yet to thoroughly walk through the broken streets of each district and interact with the people who inhabit this beautiful city. I have yet to have my heart completely broken for San Francisco. I look forward to doing these things in the coming months before we officially launch our campus.
I look forward to connecting with different pastors and different ministries to learn from their wisdom and experience; to adopt God’s heart for San Francisco through their stories. I look forward to honoring the work God is already doing in the city through them. I understand that we’re not going to be the saviors of the city. Only God can save San Francisco.
With that said, I feel like your criticism of Hillsong is unfair. A lot of what you argued against them is speculatively drawn from their short promo video or your own biased understanding of their ministry. You make assumptions about their motives and their vision without so much as having had a single conversation or dialogue with them. I understand that there have been many pastors and many ministries who have done it wrong, but is it fair to judge Hillsong before they have even set foot in the city?
Your assumptions may be correct and your criticism may be justified, but couldn’t grace be extended to them before pointing the finger? Couldn’t we see this as an opportunity instead of a travesty? Couldn’t we help them do it right? Wouldn’t it be the heart of God to at least try instead of closing our hearts off to them? Isn’t that that the beauty of the Gospel? That grace is extended where grace is not deserved?
As a pastor getting ready to make the move to San Francisco, that’s the grace I would love if it were extended to us. I know we haven’t earned it. I know we haven’t spent years praying for the city or getting to know the people. I know we haven’t poured as many tears or hours into the city as you have. I know there is still so much to learn. But our hearts burn for the same thing: to see San Francisco saved.
I can’t speak for Hillsong but I can speak for myself when I say I humble myself before you and all those who have poured their lives into the city. I look forward to learning and growing to a place where I have fully embraced God’s heart for San Francisco and can adequately become His hands and feet in the city.
Thanks again for the thought-provoking post and look forward to seeing what other conversations are sparked from this!
Mickey, thanks for your thoughtful comment. Thanks also for your music and what you continue to do for the kingdom. If coming to SF is part of that, then I’m hopeful. But yeah, consider this post a voice in the conversation for anyone wanting to plant in the Bay Area; there are hard discussions we have to engage in because the times call for it.
My post is partly preemptive: it’s about Hillsong as something that may happen in the future. But it’s also about church planters that have come in already, pastors who have not engaged seriously with those who have been here longest, with those who have the most wisdom about where this city’s at and where it’s been. I have to speak on it before Hillsong comes or else it happens just like every other church that has come in here without the agonizing conversations that need to happen first. And the onus has to be on the church coming in; the local churches are too busy dealing with the issues of their own communities to have time to reach out to the next big church coming in. My energy has to be directed at Hillsong, and directed forcefully. A quiet protest is nothing but a blip on a radar; even a loud protest like my post might not register for a powerhouse like Hillsong.
The grace is the conversation. The conversation won’t happen unless the church planter is compelled. This is my best shot – I realize the language I use might not be the most uplifting, but, admittedly, it wouldn’t have been real coming out any other way.
Nonetheless, I appreciate you engaging with my thoughts and not just ignoring it or being defensive about it. Even if you were, I wouldn’t blame you. But I hope you/we keep having hard conversations about it, because at the end of the day, that’s how all of us will grow to truly understand what it means to love the city. Peace, brother.
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I imagine you have had to respond to so many comments and it must get exhausting. Your response definitely helped me better understand the intent behind writing this article. It definitely did spark a conversation and for that I’m truly happy.
Would love to connect with you sometime in the near future, maybe over coffee or something 🙂
Hey Mickey and Nate, if this does happen, Id like to be there. Mickey you will love the conversation. Nate has quite the mind. Nate we also have some catching up to do. MC Mick love to hear about your new church plans
I remember when far-right intolerance and racism was being passed off as Christianity in the 80’s. It failed, badly. Here, far-left intolerance and racism is being passed of as Christian humility. Fail!
Jesus always (always) responded to the faith and humility of the individual (or the lack, thereof). He did NOT respect the arbitrary group identity assigned to that individual. He was hated for that. How dare Jesus not bow down the to manufactured social imperatives meant to control Him! Didn’t Jesus know he might hurt someone’s feelings or piss of the ‘elders’?
No, Jesus knew their hearts. Instead, He healed, forgave and even performed miracles for both the oppressed AND the oppressor. Jesus didn’t play identity politics, nor respect pigment-based, status-based, residency-based or culture-based bias and racism. This post, quite beautifully, cosigns a divisive deception of our time – this neoliberal intolerance and racism, married with the delusion of entitled tribalism. And, how many admonitions are in the Word to NOT mistreat (AKA pre-judge, marginalize, ridicule, accuse) newcomers, visitors, transplants, and migrants entering your city?
Look, the challenge to check your motives and sit in judgement of yourself first is a true one. We can all use more of that. But, this post betrays the core example Christ gave to us to live by. It sounds like a Pharisee wrote it – sitting in his high-chair of entitlement.
In a world where black slavery is again rampant (black slaves captured and owned by other black Africans), where Christian genocide is currently being perpetrated throughout the middle east, this blog article illuminates not the Hope of the Gospel, but the twisted, myopic, anti-Christian ideology of entitled intolerance and outright racism. An ideology mired in manufactured victimhood and a perpetual self-disenfranchisement. There is no healing, no peace, no hope, no light in your words, Nate. Praying for you!
Bart, I welcome your prayers! Lord knows I need them. Jesus’ salvation is for oppressed and oppressor alike, but the invitation is not the same. Jesus stood on the margins and invited those in power to join him, not the other way around. My invitation to Hillsong is: empty yourself of your power and hear the voices of those silenced in San Francisco. It is there that all of our liberation lies.
This is not a request for “collective punishment” of Hillsong. But sometimes when you ask those who dwell on mountains to be brought low while you fight for those in valleys to be lifted up, you might be labeled as a “reverse racist” or punishing the powerful. Oh well. I hope Hillsong is brought low, low enough to hear the voices of folks who have been on the ground for decades, folks who are being displaced, oppressed, and harmed by those in power.
Take care!
Nate, I am an African-American baptist minister residing in Oakland, California. Last year, I was awarded a proclamation by the Oakland City Council for my work in bringing healing to the troubled, violent streets. I teach Bible Study at the world renowned Glide Memorial Church in San Francisco. I am also the author of five books. I read your article a few days ago. I was glad that I was sitting down. If not, it might have knocked me off my feet! Let me explain. Last April, there was a knock at my door. It was my landlord. He pointed at a man standing next to him and informed me that this gentleman had just purchased the building where I’d lived for eight years. At that point, gentrification became more than a word in the dictionary for me. It was real. Displacement didn’t hit me as hard as it hit some of my neighbors, some of whom now live in cardboard boxes and tent cities. I heard the story of one poor woman who now has to perform sexual favors for the new landlord in order to maintain housing for she and her children in a quickly gentrifying section of the city. I could go on. Hillsong Church, your Christian brothers and sisters of color are under siege and sinking fast. We’ve got enough praise singing going on in Bayview-Hunters Point, the Tenderloin, Oakland, Richmond and
East Palo. What we need is some good old fashion Christian social justice. People are being evicted illegally every day in the hood. If you say that God sent you to help us, the good news would be that you are setting up a clinic in your church so that we can learn what our rights are in regard to rent increases and evictions. The good news would be that you are coming to bring help to fight the foreclosure debacle that is putting our children out on the streets. The good news would be that you are going to help inner city school children master STEM education so that they too will be able to work for the tech companies that have ripped the fragile social fabric of the Bay Area’s inner cities in half. So you say that you only want to talk about soul salvation? Do any of the above and I can almost guarantee that anything you say will get a sincere hearing because your Christian deeds, would have matched your Christian creeds. In April, my newest book : “Street Cred: A Hood Minister’s Guide To Urban Ministry” will be released complete with cover endorsements from Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Ray Bakke and Shane Claiborne. Please check it out because I deal bluntly with subjects like the one raised in your blog. You can find out more by accessing: http://www.revharrywilliams.us.
Brother Harry, thanks so much for your comment and your experience. You have articulated so much of what we all have been feeling about what’s going on in the bay area. Thank you for your service on the ground and in the trenches on behalf of those who have been run out by this system. Thank you for fighting for justice, real Jesus-shaped justice. Be blessed, friend.
Thank you for saying it! For too long we’ve wanted to be seen to be “doing great things for God”, yet very few have wanted to come and simply serve and support someone else’s work.
I believe it’s time to stop bringing in ‘our’ brand, ‘our’ platform, ‘our’ god to the table. Instead, how about we get down from the table altogether and start washing the feet of those who were already there…
Amen!
All Christian leaders should a vision from John 17 about Jesus words on unity, encourage not pull down> im an AOG Chaplain and dont personally agree with every thing that goes on in the local church, but I pray encouragement and the will of God for the leaders, build up not pull down, blessings on HillsongSF..
COL
As someone who is ex-Hillsong Sydney, I agree with this article wholeheartedly. I ‘knew’ Ben when he was a teen and in the youth group under me, I know the Houston empire, etc. The church is heartbreak, pure and simple, because they don’t take the time to observe for the reasons mentioned in the article above. I still know many people who have been scarred greatly by this church and it’s ‘fit with us or you are not serving God with your whole heart’ philosophy. Ben is ok as a person, but his father and the church is evil to its core.
Evil? That’s a big call.
My old church had a very negative interaction with Hillsongs when they were looking to plant a church in another big city (I will withhold the city to protect anybody that was involved). Anyways, my old church used to meet at a club/bar that we would transform into a church on Sundays. A team from Hillsongs came to check out the location and befriended the pastor/staff at my church. We offered to let them borrow our seats if they chose to also rent out the space (we only had one morning service so the venue was unused after our service was over). They agreed and held their preview services in the venue.
Anyways, to make a long story short, the time came for us to renew our lease with the building owners. We didn’t think much of it until the owner told us that they would not be renewing our lease and that the upcoming Sunday would be our last Sunday meeting there. We pretty quickly found out that Hillsongs had signed a lease to use the venue the entire day essentially displacing my church. My pastor went to their pastor and asked if we could meet 2 more times so we could find another place to meet and to tell the congregation members about the change. The Hillsongs pastor/leadership team would not allow this and pretty much told my church to take a hike. The rest is history…
Wow. Thank you for sharing your story. This is extremely sad… I’m going to assume that this was an anomaly, but it hurts. And this is the very thing that I hope doesn’t happen here. If there is no conversation, no dialogue, no true partnership, then folks get stomped on. Did your church find another place to meet?
Nate, regardless of your assumptions and sweeping generalizations Hillsong will plant a church in San Francisco, they won’t bow at your feet for approval prior to establishment as you desire.
In a few years time there will be a huge thriving Hillsong Church in San fransico with 10,000+attendees and thousands saved.
Hillsong San francisco will be assisting the poor and will be running multiple community programs to assist those in need. The Church will made up of people from different ethnic backgrounds, age groups and social backgrounds. I suspect they will be looking for larger buildings to contain the growth and will have multiple campuses across San francisco.
The critics will continue to throw rocks and Hillsong will continue to win people for Christ. I suspect this will all happen because it has already happened in 20 cities in which Hillsong has planted.
It doesn’t matter how hard you spit your dummy and protest Hillsong will be a success.
“In a few years time there will be a huge thriving Hillsong Church in San fransico with 10,000+attendees and thousands saved.”
You can go to Brian Houston’s Hillsong church in and ask a member what the gospel is, and you will be quick to learn they don’t know what the gospel is. If they don’t know the gospel, they are not saved. It’s a common theme in Hillsong churches. You assume that people in Hillsong are saved. Sadly, they seem to think that going to church is what saves them because they are now “apart of something bigger than themselves”.
Don’t buy the lie that they save people. They don’t. They result in gimmicks to get people “saved”. And these people are often responding to altar calls to get marriage, family or financial breakthrough’s. Hillsong considers these responses as salvations. And that is misleading. They even consider a rededicated member as a salvation in their own church. They use this to give the impression that they are still saving people. They then use this falsehood to thump their self-appointed glory to thump local churches to be apart of what Hillsong is doing or to become like Hillsong. And then they start up a “bible” or art “college” to suck in other church members from other local or international churches. They now start attending Hillsong church as well. Creepily enough, they consider them “salvations” too.
I have seen them do this technique numerous times. This is how they get “10,000+attendees”. And to grow up witnessing this type of behavior in the name of “Jesus” is off. Honesty and transparency should be what governs a church. Hillsong capitalise on our Christian ethics to build their success dishonestly. It needs to stop and people need to wake up and realise they are being had.
“The critics will continue to throw rocks and Hillsong will continue to win people for Christ.”
David – Hillsong’s critics are Christ Himself and His Apostles. Hillsong church and it’s leadership are accountable to NO ONE. Just look at the findings of the Royal Commission. Brian Houston and Frank Houston were accountable to no one and were protected by everyone. The bible publicly condemns these men for their crimes as does the laws of the land. Christians need to stop defending lawless men because it is these lawless men that oppose God himself and his church. Jesus calls them false teachers and has declared that he will be the one responsible for sending them to hell in spite of their false ‘good works’. That should wake us up a bit. That is what Jesus said he will do. So it would be wise not to stand with those he will condemn. The best criticism a Christian can keep dishing out at Hillsong is for Brian Houston and his mob to repent of their lawlessness and blasphemies. If I am labeled a “critic” or “hater” because I put the bible above Houston, so be it. That says a lot about the spiritual condition of those who love Hillsong.
Jake, I appreciate your thoughts, but you are misusing this comment section. Even if there are things on which we may agree, I simply can’t support the ways in which you’ve responded to people en masse. If you continue in this manner, I will block you.
Okay.
I appreciate this particular comment of yours because it’s humanizing. To be vocal about all this is one thing, and you can certainly do that on your own blog, but I don’t appreciate you taking over this comment space, that’s all.
David, I appreciate your comment. At then end of the day, it doesn’t matter what Hillsong does, how many programs it starts, what kinds of ministries it engages in: if it does it without deep partnership and intentional communication with local churches, all will be done for the sake of Hillsong, not for San Francisco and certainly not for God’s kingdom.
You and I probably measure “success” very differently. Success in my book has nothing to do with numbers or programs. It has to do with the depth of understanding and love. Depth comes with time, with hard conversations, with forgiveness and restoration. If Hillsong is willing pursue depth in this sense, then I welcome it with open arms.
But you know what, you might just be right. Hillsong will come and do its thing and no one will ever remember that this post even existed. I’m totally fine with that. But I couldn’t let myself stay silent when harm has already been done and more is on its way. I spoke my piece. You have the right to speak yours. Be blessed brother.
Nate
” if it does it without deep partnership and intentional communication with local churches, all will be done for the sake of Hillsong, not for San Francisco and certainly not for God’s kingdom”
You are starting from the position that Hillsong does not partner with local churches which I disagree with. The whole vision behind Hillsong conference is to support the local church, this is a huge focus of the entire movement. Why is your default position negative?
David, thanks again for engaging. I am more than happy to be proven wrong. If Hillsong wants to come in and have conversations with local churches, let’s make it happen. But a Hillsong Conference is not real, grassroots, sustainable partnership. A conference can’t do that. If Hillsong leadership wants to sit down with longtime local pastors and develop real, honest, longterm relationships, then that’s a great starting place. Unfortunately, there has been too much of this from other church plants for me to give Hillsong the benefit of the doubt; it might not be fair, but it’s real. If Hillsong can give any indication that they want to listen to the voices of those who have been here longest, I’m very open to changing my position. Thanks again David.
Nate – i’m a san franciscan too who also grew up in a Chinese Church (although mine is was in Cleveland). I stumbled across your blog and I’m so grateful to have, because sometimes in the city I feel like there are no other people who are genuinely seeking Jesus in all that they do. I’ve read a bunch of your blog posts over the last hour or so, and I’ve been inspired and heartened. I’m so thankful that you write this blog.
All that said, I respectfully disagree with you on your post here, and I strongly disagree with your statement that “if it does it without deep partnership and intentional communication
with local churches, all will be done for the sake of Hillsong, not for
San Francisco and certainly not for God’s kingdom.”
When I first read your post, I couldn’t help but think of Ezra 4 and the return of the exiles to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple. When the exiles returned, the locals who were the ones that were left behind and not carried into exile, tried to offer their help to build the temple, but the exiles (who were outsiders and were largely comprised of people who were born in Babylon) refused their help. And the exiles rebuilt the temple, without the participation of the folks of the natives of the land.
Now i don’t know what God has planned and who He will choose to use to bless San Francisco. I personally hope and pray that I will be used by Him to bless this city that’s been my home for years, but I acknowledge that it might be a complete outsider who leads a revival in my city.
[…] facebook in 2016, Vines promoted a post from the personal blog natejlee.com. The post was addressed to Pastor Houston of Hillsong, and […]
I am in Australia and I am standing and applauding. I’m reading a book called Slow Church: cultivating community in the patient way of Jesus…everything hillsongs plan is not! May SF be spared our exported colonial mentality…we think because the British did it and started Australia in 1770 (?) that this should be the model of our churches as well…nope, God is already at work in SF and Ben Houston needs to not get in God’s road.
Greg, thank you for your comment. I’ll look into reading that book!
Hey Nate,
I recently came across an American term called ‘Manifest Destiny’. Never heard of this philosophy until I looked into it more. I think this a reasonable summary of it:
“Manifest Destiny is a term for the attitude prevalent during the 19th century period of American expansion that the United States not only could, but was destined to, stretch from coast to coast. This attitude helped fuel western settlement, Native American removal and war with Mexico.”
I think the church has unfortunately embraced a form of spiritual ‘manifest destiny’. I think this quite accurately summarises the paradigm of young Houston in that video, those verses he picked in particular. Food for thought.
It seems that is all you do is judge everything and everyone all of the time….Weather it’s on ChurchWatch or blogs like this you seem to spend all your time criticizing, belittling, judging, misrepresenting and hating. This is all dressed up in false declaration that you somehow you have the truth and everyone else is wrong. I have news for you Jake, you are not the ultimate authority on truth and neither am I. The difference between us is that I look for the best in people and you look for the worst.
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Having read your article, and your reasons for why San Francisco doesn’t need Hillsong.. I feel like the same thing could have been said about Los Angeles. It didn’t “need” Hillsong. There’s a church on nearly every block. However, I would not be Christian today if it were not for their Los Angeles plant. They were the first Christian church that I visited, and it was because of their environment that I was able to begin my journey.
I read your article first before watching the video, yet I cannot detect the sinister intentions that you seem to interject upon them. No where did they say, “God’s FINALLY got a plan for SF”. They said God has a plan.
If I got started at a company, and say my boss has a plan for this project.. it doesn’t mean there wasn’t a plan already there.
After re-reading your article, i’m sensing is bitterness. In one paragraph (the one starting with “I’m so tired of this”), there is a sense of resentment towards the lack of local support. There is a war going on in the city and people have been hurt by it. So… why then, did you follow up with: ‘This city doesn’t need you. This city is fine without you.’
Either the city is suffering or it’s not. It would be better to ask for support rather than to shun good intentions (even if it is misdirected good intentions).
Anonymous, thanks. Since Hillsong LA is the first and only church that you’ve attended, I’m going to assume you have your biases. I have my own, let’s just recognize them.
Your example for joining a company isn’t very helpful. If we asked for Hillsong to join us, or if we “hired” Hillsong because we felt like we needed their support, then that would be an accurate analogy. No one, especially the pastors who have been here longest, asked Hillsong to come here. So according to your analogy, Hillsong is the big loud dude who never actually got hired, but shows up randomly one day, tells the boss that he can transform the company to be even better even though he knows nothing about this company’s vision, mission, or goals. This big loud dude is out of line. He’s not beyond hope, because of course if he’s willing, we can sit down and appropriately bring him on board, but he needs to seriously chill out.
Anyways, let’s say the city is “suffering,” even though I never used that word in my post. It’s suffering because of people (especially people with power and money) coming into SF without a deep understanding of what the city needs and therefore misusing that power. In this sense, we do not need Hillsong, because it is approaching the city in the same way as those who created the suffering in the first place. We don’t need Hillsong because they’re going to make the problem worse. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make… Of course, if Hillsong is willing to adjust their approach then I am willing to adjust mine. But you haven’t convinced me.
Take care anonymous friend.
Hey Nate,
I really enjoyed your perspective. Being a pastor’s kid, and serving the church all my life from the ground up, I too carried this same passion in LA. I literally had this conversation over and over with friends. Somehow though, God asked me to step into Hillsong Church. It was more about continuing the work he longed to do in LA, and in my heart, I felt a native needed to belong to this church to help newcomers SEE the city, SEE the need, SEE the hard work that has already taken place. It was a challenge. At some points I felt offended, but then God pointed out to me the miracle he was doing. Streets that bared beds for homeless friends were now the entry way for them to “have a family” as some of them put it.. which also led to them getting into housing. Others who gave up on God and his church, suddenly found themselves at a place who accepted them – gay, straight, confused, happy, greedy.. whatever. People who showed up to “build the church” has to learned how to get on their hands and knees and feel the aches and pains of the city… Some stayed, some left. All this to say is that I had my reservations – much like yours. But God cares about people. He wants people to care about people. It means sharing the space, putting down our dukes and not letting anything the unity he so desires for the world.
*not letting anything get in the way of the unity he so desires for the world.
Not sure that’s true… That your salvation was dependent on Hillsongs! Not biblical to start with. God may have used Hillsong to reveal himself to you, but as he chose you before the creation of the world Eph1, I can assure you he would have saved you by other means if Hillsongs weren’t in LA!
I praise God for insights of this post. However, I also praise God that He is using Hillsong to draw people to himself. I am simply crushed by the lack of kindness and humility in this post. Scripture doesn’t address whether or not Hillsong should plant in SF but it does explicitly command Christians to be overwhelmingly and undeservedly kind to one another. I found this article had some great points but was overall deeply saddening to me due to its tone. Even if (and I’m not implying that this author does, but EVEN if) one determines that ‘Hillsongers’ are not to be Christians (which, who made you arbiter and judge?) Peter writes that we ought to correct those outside with “gentleness and respect.” I love whoever wrote this article and I’m glad for some much needed insight. However, I very much hope that what we post for the world to see will be a display of Christian unity, charity, and love – not at the expense of strength and conviction – but because our strength comes from humility and conviction is rooted in love.
Mike, thanks for your thoughtful comment. You’re absolutely right – I’m pretty upset. And I have no problems about being angry, enraged even, that Hillsong has approached the city this way. The crazy thing is, I am justifying my anger by citing the same things you are: unity, humility, and respect. Because Hillsong has not shown any of these things through its actions and its carelessness. So I’m compelled to speak because Hillsong transgressed Christian unity before I did. They just didn’t do it as explicitly as me.
Unity is costly. Unity doesn’t happen in a vacuum; it always has to do with power. And real, Jesus-shaped unity means that those in power must relinquish it for the flourishing of all of God’s people, especially the poor. Unity doesn’t just mean I’m nice and calm and docile when there are hurting people–particularly poor folks and people of color–who are being harmed by thoughtless, powerful people who misinterpret their roles in society. So if you’re going to reprimand me for my sins (and I’m not mad if you are), then reprimand Hillsong as well. Reprimand all the other folks who have marched into communities without understanding them, listening to them, or knowing them. These are greater sins than an angry blog post.
Ultimately, what I deeply desire is for Hillsong to be genuinely integrated into the life of San Francisco. But this can’t happen without a conversation, without hard, heartbreaking conversations about where this city is at and where it’s been. If Hillsong is willing to do this, then we can start talking about any semblance of unity. Until then, I’ll stay angry, I’ll continue lamenting. Take care Mike.
I hear you, and your points are well taken, but the way I see it is: one side can’t see their sin and the other side can see their sin but wont do anything about it. I have done reconciliation long enough to know that both have to see and be willing to do something about their sins before anything will change. I feel your pain in this, and I’m angry too. Thats fine – be angry! ‘But do not sin.’ What if this blog post was prayerfully re-written in the spirit of unity as exemplified by MLK? What a beautiful display of passives action, gentle anger, and strong humility (see his I Have a Dream speech). My brother, “Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate – only love can do that.” I mention any of this because I greatly appreciate what you have to say but I want your point to be heard (and not simply reacted against) by the world! I am not an expert I would gladly read Ephesians 2 – 4 with you as an exercise in how to behave in the Christian conflict? Perhaps we could exchange emails?
Nate, I agree with Mike here. I see quite a bit of distance between your so called justified anger and Philippians 1:15-18. In fact, your tone and attitude seem 180 degrees opposite of Paul’s in that particular passage.
There is so much to be gleaned from this conversation. It is helpful in my own local context understanding the people in my own church. A couple comments on assumptions. When in history have people ever been able to understand a place before you get there? My answer. You dont. Sometimes God wants people to come in like a wrecking ball …ahem… Its good for them and you brah. As you said unity is costly …even for you. As my friend likes to say Christianity is the only religion where they shoot the wounded.Everything I see is that there is a lot of conversations to be had. Maybe develop some commitees to understand this. You could even make them “blue ribbon” committees.
Nate J. Lee, never forget the words of our Lord to Peter at the end of the book of John. Paraphrase.. If i want him to continue till i return, what is that to you? You follow me.
Do the things He wants you to do, dont get your butt all hurt brother…Btw, the quickest way to get rid of racial distictions is to quit drawing them. They are people.
Agree with the lack of kindness and humility. Nate doesn’t know what he’s talking about; he only likes to sound like he does.
Please take more care with vastly sweeping generalisations like this one: ‘Like it or not, Christianity is the reason nations have been exploited,
people have been enslaved, and communities have been robbed of their
culture and personhood.’ This statement ignores the vast historical complexity of European colonialism and imperialism over 500 years, and the fact that political and economic imperatives drove colonialism, while Christians often worked to criticise and mitigate its excesses.
Great historian of the internet, I only make generalizations if they are, well, generally true. I’m sure you’ve done your research; I’ve done mine too. Christianity–albeit a painfully, deeply distorted one–lies at the heart of the colonial endeavor. Of course there were political and economic reasons, but they were always tied in with the theological. I’ll concede that other countries didn’t have a theological imperative in their colonization, not that I know of anyway. Japan was not compelled in any theological sense that I know of. But Europe’s colonialism was rooted in a deeply theological vision, a Christian one. And yes there have been white/European Christians, both now and in history, who have protested the colonial enterprise, but it doesn’t do away with the fact that the Great Commission in the hands of the European church formed the philosophical framework and vocabulary by which they colonized, exploited, and enslaved. So when I make the point in my post, I mean it. Perhaps I could have rhetorically softened the blow, but I didn’t think that would be as fun.
For more reading, I recommend: The Christian Imagination by Willie James Jennings and Race: A Theological Account by J. Kameron Carter. What books do you recommend for me?
Be blessed, historian.
As intellectual as you sound, Nate, Hillsong are not interested in colonializing. You’d be a buffoon to remotely assume that. The problems of poverty and real estate are not remotely “Christian”. They are the problems resulting from the pride in every human heart.
Interesting blog. Thank you for sharing your heart. I will only say a couple things.
I actually attend and actively serve at Hillsong LA so I do have some bias but my comment are mine alone.
1. Feel free to be part of the conversation. I think step 1 is actually blogging about it and sharing your heart and your reservations. You could end it here but if you really care as much as you say that you do (which I think you do), then be apart of step 2 and get in contact with Ben and the rest of the team from Hillsong LA. Find out when they are going to be in SF and get coffee with them. Talk to them about your city. Be apart of the other steps in the process not just the criticism. Criticism is important but so is a helping hand and being a part of the conversation AND being part of a healthy solution or resolution.
2. Since I do go to Hillsong LA, I went to our Heart and Soul Night where Ben actually talked us through the logistics for Hillsong SF and you know what he said? There is no timeline and nothing set in stone, no location, no staff. Literally right now it’s just a dream that he believes God has put in his heart. This isn’t something that is going to happen right away it’ll happen gradually. Also if you were at the heart and soul night (which you weren’t), you would know that sitting down with local pastors and leaders is something that Ben has said he wants to do. Its’ going to happen.
3. We all have a part to play so do your part. God uses the local church and He uses the mega church. He uses individuals and corporations. God will use anything He sees fit to allow people to see His love for them. We aren’t competing at all. Yeah Hillsong has a lot of resources and a large influential reach. But guess what, your local church has an impact in the Asian community. You can reach people Hillsong can’t and Hillsong can reach people that you can’t. People have been hurt in Hillsong but I guarantee that people have been hurt in your church too. That is called church. Do your part in your local church to make it a place where people want to be.
4. Ive been part of churches my whole life. i’ve been a part of small church plants, big mega churches, i’ve helped plant a campus for a megachurch in the poorer area of a city, I’ve started a living room church and I now I go to Hillsong LA. There are different ideologies and ideas on what’s the best way but what I have found out is that it doesn’t really matter why people are attracted to church, it’s the message of the Bible AND the people that they encounter that will keep them there.
So I would encourage you to do your part. Be part of the dialogue and part of the solution. Try and get in contact with Ben when he is in SF. Talk to other churches about this. Talk about the pros and the cons (because there are both). Pray about it. God is using you and will use you just as much as He is going to use Hillsong LA. If all you do is blog about it, you could miss God wanting to use you to be part of the bigger story.
Stefan, thanks for your comment. I’m happy to have a conversation with Ben Houston if you want to let him know. This is the thing though–it’s not up to me to meet with Hillsong. If Hillsong really wanted to come to SF in the most loving and intentional way that they could, they would have reached out BEFORE releasing a video, before making an announcement, and before all of this. And it would have been great if Hillsong invited some folks from SF to their heart and soul night, to have some SF pastors and community workers share their hearts for SF to give some direction to how yall are going to continue praying for the church plant. It comes from a deeply privileged place to be able to make an announcement before figuring out anything about the next steps of a church plant.
But really, instead of meeting with me, I’d rather Ben Houston do some research, make a list of the 20 pastors who have been in SF longest, and then spend the next two years asking them questions about how he can serve them, serve the city, fight gentrification, and how Hillsong Church can come into the city in the most conscientious, intentional, loving way possible. And if Hillsong is willing to do that, then I’ll be there with open arms to partner with them, serve with them, and join with them in genuine communion. Until then, I’m discouraged.
And you’re probably right – Hillsong can certainly reach swaths more people than my church ever could. And we’ll reach other folks still. That’s not the point. The point is that there is a more loving way to enter into a city. That’s really it.
You don’t have to accuse me of doing nothing but blogging about this. This is something that I’m wrestling with every day. This is something that has implications about even the smallest decisions about how I spend my money, who I talk to on the streets, and which neighborhoods I go to. I don’t claim to have figured it out, but trust that I’m doing more than talking. This blog post comes out of my life, not the other way around. Be blessed in LA, brother.
Hi – how do you know he hasn’t met with local pastors? Local leaders in education, business and social justice? I would guess to say you don’t KNOW as you’ve never met or spoken with him or any leader of any branch of Hillsong.
You’re making a lot of assumptions. As someone who attends HillsongNYC (from day 1 I might add) I’ve watched our pastors and team do exactly the things you’re asking to be done here. Meeting with all kinds of local religious leaders and even leaders in non-religious circles. We gathered locals to build this church of ALL colors shapes sizes and ethnic backgrounds. (You kept saying “white Christian”).
The verse referring to “displacing” refers to spiritually displacing the enemy NOT actually displacing people from homes or business.
Like the person above, I encourage you to reach out to the team (to require they come to you is arrogant from someone crying for humility). There will be open interest meetings and other such meetings open to anyone. Please attend one and hear his heart for the city not just what you assume is in his heart.
I can tell you Hillsongs mission can be found if you google it (and also google “the church I see”). At its very core it’s to reach people and bring them to a place of relationship with Jesus.
SF has what 6M people in it ? Guessing sorry. Until there is a place for 6M people to hear see and experience the love of Jesus in SF there is a need for another church. A church eager to come in and love LOCAL people and partner with local churches and organizations to do just that. It’s what Hillsong does.
Praying for SF- a city I love! It’s history, influence on society and culture technology and social issues is huge. I’m excited for what GOD is going to do in this great city because as believers we do believe the “best is yet to come” for all of us.
Not sure we know one another Nate but I would love to talk with you at some point about this man. Some really strong and potentially hurtful language here. Bless you bro.
I too feel what you feel, Matthew – upon reading this, my gut reaction is: I’d like to meet Nate in person to understand where all this irrational, negative, albeit well-written angst is pouring out from.
Regardless of what anyone thinks, and regardless of any range of opinions, there truly IS potential in the Bay Area. Not only is the influx of developers to the tech boom here proof of that attitude, but this area is one of the least church-friendly places in the world. I’ve heard (unverified) accounts that San Francisco / Bay Area church-goers account for only 5% (or less) of the population.
But let’s be frank: church-going is not at all the deciding factor of what is going on in a human’s heart; I too am guilty of walking through church doors with loads of unresolved sin on my plate. Just the same, I have wandered far away from the church and still been very much in the grip of God’s grace. But my point here is that, if the mark of a Christian believer (or any adherent to any creed or religion) is not really about “going” anywhere at all. It is not about who we are. It is about WHOSE we are. And as much as we all hate the word *religion* (especially those of us who grew up in it) we all can agree that faith is dead without works, and thus unconditional love and service to widows and orphans, the lost and hungry, the broken-hearted and marginalized, the poor and needy, the sick and destitute, the rich and successful, the gay and proud, the overworked and exhausted (etc, etc), is how religion ought to be defined. This is basically the only definition of “true” religion found in the Bible, in the book of James.
Back to the main topic: in summary, I dare say Hillsong, particularly as a Christian community with worldwide influence (especially in the area of experiential worship), offers some of the greatest potential to unify (and maybe polarize) believers in this area, who have been shirking the responsibility to step up the love of Christ in a seriously bold yet com/passionate way. I very much look forward to seeing how this grows over time. Because I believe God can only use it for His good will, and for the love of all who love Him and are called according to His purpose.
Joel, thanks for your comment. Worldwide influence doesn’t mean much to me if you’re trying to convince me that this is a good thing. In fact, it makes me even more hesitant to engage. Influence is not necessarily correlated with integrity, sustainability, or love, so your recommendation falls flat. I’m not syaing that Hillsong is incapable of doing this the right way, but they haven’t yet shown anything of substance.
And please do not accuse “believers in this area” of “shirking the responsibility to step up in the love of Christ.” All that does is epitomize the whole attitude that I’m fiercely against. I can’t even.
But maybe you touch on something important: what this is really about is seeing faithful folks in San Francisco being taken seriously. That is my hope. Hillsong will be taken seriously by default just because they’re Hillsong. This whole blog post is testament to the fact that Hillsong is important. But SF churches–no one cares about us. No one thinks we even exist. And folks like you think we’re “shirking our responsibilities.” It breaks my heart. So if Hillsong wants to take seriously the way God has involved himself in the rich story of this city, then I’m all for it. But you haven’t convinced me.
Take care friend
Great response, Nate. Glad for the dialogue.
First off, worldwide influence can’t *only* be evidence of a corporate vision that took off on the wings of a bunch of hype. As I said, I believe God will mightily use things that influence the globe… be it terrorism or a trend in music. Hillsong—substance or not—being somewhere in between (wink), God will use it regardless of whatever individual or conglomerate attitudes happen to pervade the movement. The point is that the movement will carry a certain weight, because of the attention it gets. And hopefully, presumable, that attention will ultimately be on God Himself. He manages that pretty well.
I apologize for stating what seemed like an accusation towards believers in the Bay Area “shirking responsibilities” but I am pointing at myself. I am a strong, faithful Christian who is not doing all that much. We all, if we are honest, ought to be able to point the finger at ourselves and, every day, know that we fall short. That said, I’m interested in what you say is the epitome of an attitude you stand against. I probably stand with you.
Summing up, I don’t care whether it’s Hillsong, or Alan Watts, or Francis Ford Coppola, or the Warriors, or Mark Kozelek, or Steve Jobs, or anyone else… who draws attention to this region’s history, be it through politics, business, religion, philosophy, music, film, or fanatical gay-pridery. I am Canadian, but having lived here since 2012, I am enjoying giving this area my own attention for my own varied reasons; but the primary reason is because I love learning to relevantly express the creativity that has been imparted to me by my Creator (in His image), and I think that’s what he designed me to do.
Finally, I am not trying to convince you that Hillsong in particular stands anywhere specific. My sister-in-law lived two minutes walk from Hillsong’s home campus in Balkham Hills, Sydney, and spent a few years working on their creative team, with Reuben Morgan as her boss for a while. My wife and I attended her wedding to a Sydney / Hillsong native in 2007, and we have experienced their culture in person many times… so I kind of know what I’m talking about.
And if my own God-breathed creative impetus is anywhere near the same kind of motivation by which Hillsong folks might be fueled, I’m all for it. Side note, I’m interested in how they might collaborate more with Bethel, given the proximity to Redding. Meanwhile, having watched other Hillsong campus locations spring up (notably for me in New York, starting off in a venue where my wife and I watched Pinback on our honeymoon in 2004, and where my sister-in-law and her husband later moved to help plant the Hillsong NY campus), it’s predictable that they aren’t just flexing muscle, but giving upcoming leaders in their care a chance to grow their passion, skills, vision, connection to the area, etc. This thing isn’t *remotely* anything like a corporate take-over, a barge-in and reap success and recognition, a short- (or even long-term) mission, or even anything like a rescue mission that our own residents haven’t managed to pull off.
For Hillsong SF, I believe it’s a conscious choice to engage people who are already here, people who are part of the generation of worshippers who have been hugely influenced by Hillsong, people who are already PART of the history here, and people who refuse to shirk their Christian responsibilities. Overall, this movement is something we can’t possibly yet understand, and it is part of a HIStory that God is orchestrating by using (and in spite of!) every single human involved.
Brother Matthew, we don’t know each other. Take care.
Nate, having said all I’ve already said, and having spent an hour reviewing your post, I just want to say that your entire post betrays a HUGE ignorance of the fact that Ben’s desire to plant a campus here is not about Hillsong, or about Ben Houston’s objectives, or the music, or the corporation, or ANYONE OR ANYTHING ON EARTH.
Stop being stupid. If you can’t trust a fellow Christian, then the problem is that you can’t trust yourself. So get over yourself, and admit it – this is about God, and his love for his people. I don’t think you can justify your rant by implying that a few passionate humans are going to shove God out of his throne.
Friendly shove,
Joel
Hi Joel. Ok, I’ll stop being stupid! Thanks!
But do you understand what I’m getting at? The problems you point out are real – I’m not saying that is what’s stupid. What to me is stupid is ignoring God’s sovereignty, speaking as if you know what His motives are (or aren’t) through His servants, and basically using this whole platform as if you have the ability to judge Ben Houston’s heart, or for that matter, the heart of any other Christian who is interested in what they can do to serve others. None of us know anyone else’s heart, and motives, but our own… and even then, God knows us better than we know ourselves. So save the rant… and try expressing a desire to stand shoulder to shoulder as teammates with your fellow believers, instead of worrying that their actions aren’t up to your standards.
you’re backpeddling off a rant and reaction that was disrespectful. I think you should live your words by standing shoulder to shoulder with Nate’s thoughts as a teammate and respect your advice. If you read carefully Nate is not imputing what Ben’s heart is all about, Ben may just need to touch base with some of the people here before he brings his army. And many people who have responded that Hillsong will not create an exodus from the local churches, you may want to observe that it has already started.
Even if your qualms with Hillsong are justified, it’s obvious that you have a personal vendetta against them. The very mindset you accuse them of, you possess yourself: “we got this, and we don’t need you.”
What would you think if Houston quoted “sending out laborers into the harvest” as the inspiration verse for this church plant? Would you suddenly support? No, the issue isn’t that. It’s that you just don’t like them. I’m no fan of Hillsong either, but wherever this angst is coming from, it ain’t healthy brother.
Hear hear. This dude has issues…
Hi Nate! I don’t think we’ve met in person, although we have many mutual friends. I have enjoyed reading your blog posts. I have a couple comments that I would like to share.
1) First off, thank you for your post, in all your genuine anger and frustration. I’m reminded of the Psalms, which are often filled with exclamations of great anger. Consider Psalm 137:8-9.
“Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is the one who repays you according to what you have done to us. Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.”
The Psalms are filled with expressions of anger. The psalmists recognized that they must acknowledge their anger before they can use it in a useful way. As Tim Keller put it, “Anger is love in motion toward a threat which it loves.”
You don’t seem to have ill intent toward Hillsong. I don’t think you want bad things to happen to Ben Houston, or a Hillsong campus in San Francisco. But you seem to want Hillsong to listen to the churches in San Francisco and become a true partner. You seem to be angry not because you hate Hillsong, but because you want to protect your community.
You don’t seem to ascribe ill intent to Hillsong. You aren’t saying that Hillsong intentionally is coming to displace people. Rather, you seem to be calling out their ignorance and lack of understanding.
As I understand it, this post isn’t really about Hillsong. I imagine that you would have a similar response if Willow Creek, or Saddleback, or any other large megachurch were to come to San Francisco. But any church planter to any city, from a congregation big or small, would do well to seek out what God is already doing in the city and partner with local communities.
2) I’m a law student in Chicago. Two years ago, I was in a Christian Legal Society meeting at my school. We were praying for one of the graduating students, and one person said “Now we pray for Anthony, who is going to San Francisco, the city that God forgot.”
The comment was made in jest, but I think it reflects some of your frustrations. The question is: “Who is San Francisco?” Is San Francisco just Salesforce, Facebook, and Google? What story is being told about the communities in the city? If “God is not in San Francisco” but there are communities in the city with robust churches, the message is that those communities are not part of San Francisco.
3) Your post had me thinking: What does it mean to love a city?
If I say that I love Berkeley, what does that mean? Does it mean that I love the food, the weather, the natural beauty, the opportunities, and the many, many good things about Berkeley? Because if that’s what it means, then my love is centered on how the city meets my needs, provides me with services, makes me feel.
What if I loved a person this way? What if I said that I love my friend because of all the ways that he can serve my needs and make me feel good?
But that love is a love of consumption, a self-centered love that orients around my desires.
To love a city is to seek out the welfare of the city. To intercede for it in prayer. To serve in its institutions. To minister to the vulnerable and oppressed.
As someone who was a transplant to the Bay Area (and now is a transplant in Chicago), I need to do my own soul-searching of how I love this city in which I live.
Joel, thanks so much for this, for furthering the conversation for all of us. I think we’ve met a couple times, maybe at some birthday parties or something. Sorry I haven’t responded to your message yet – I will definitely get to it soon! Take care, brother.
Wow, this really reminds me of Clint Eastwood, “get off my lawn!”. Did anyone else think that? I also think you’re assuming the worst motives here as well (of Hillsong and other church planters – they’re all pretty much colonialists? Really?). If all I knew about you was what I read in this harsh email, I could speculate quite liberally about some of your motives as well (e.g. that church planters represent a threat to your own ministry goals and ideals about how ministry should be done in SF), but that wouldn’t really be fair, would it?
BTW, I don’t have any particular rooting interest for Hillsong SF or Australia one way or another.
Good grief. He who is not against us is for us, you know. And I’ve been a Christian in San Francisco for over 30 years. Welcome any Christians coming here and thank God for the history of the great missionaries of the world, not for spreading WHITENESS for heaven’s sake, but for spreading the gospel. Get a grip.
Marie, thanks for the comment. We don’t have to see eye to eye on it. I would never assume that all San Francisco Christians think like me, how arrogant would that be? Which is why my encouragement is for any church planter to have multiple conversations to all sorts of local pastors because nuance comes with time, understanding is a function of the temporal rooted in the geographical. In order to get a fuller picture of God’s activity (past and present) in San Francisco, I would hope any church planter would talk to folks like me and with folks like you.
Whiteness is the air we breathe, both in and out of the church. Go to Native American communities and ask them whether missionaries brought whiteness or honored Native culture when they set up boarding schools. It’s easy for you to love the “missionaries of the world” because they exported a faith that affirmed your experience. But it’s not for me to convince you of this. Take care!
There are very few churches in SF that adhere to historical Christian beliefs. That is a fact. They are more than welcome to come to SF. Why do they need your local blessing and permission? Your article seems very catty, territorial and holier than thou. I have no love for Hillsong or their ministry but your left wing rant defaming Christianity and white people plays into the current SF tribalist zeitgeist. Your regurgitation of “ethnic studies departments” revisionist history is embarrassing. Please stop and welcome fellow Christians. Why is SF a spiritual wasteland (my words)? It has the lowest % of self professing believers in the US of any major city in the US. That’s a fact.
My goodness………..
Praise God! You have no idea how much I have been blessed by words. The truth you shine a light on is one of the reasons I am leaving the ministry with a broken heart after 40 years. These words were a particular blessing:
“We are not your Canaanites. In fact, we are your brothers and sisters.
So treat us like it. Don’t insult us with your….empty, idealistic prayers. Don’t offend us by believing that you of all
people will usher in anything new of God. God is doing more than you
know and he doesn’t need [a damn thing from you. If you really wish to
come here, then you will do so in humility, you will do so like Jesus,
stripping yourself of all power and becoming a servant. You will join us
in genuine communion. You will repent. And when we are ready, we will
walk with you.” Amen.
Thank you brother.”
Having read this blog, I thought back to a time when I had the privilege of personally listening to the testimony of a brother, whose name I cannot remember, that was a courier for carrying bibles into a persecuted country in the Far East. Having traveled far and long from comfortable “Midwestern USA” with his companion, he met with some indigenous pastors with his load of Bibles and was surprised that they did not receive them with much enthusiasm. After he gave them this prized possession, they invited him and his companion to dinner. The two stayed and were (understandably) concerned about the poor quality of the food. They ate and this brother, however, listened to the Spirit who told him, “to ask for seconds.” And so he did as did his partner and they ate their food with gusto, he recounted. The pastors then asked them to stay for the night. Again, they listened to the Spirit and stayed instead of retreating to their comfortable American-run hotel. Their accommodations were manageable but hardly comfortable. The next morning, he recalled, they awoke to a wonderful meal of succulent meat, pork and rice as well as renewed enthusiasm from the pastors present who thanked them profusely for bringing them Bibles. “Why the change?” he thought. Before he could answer, the local pastor said that these two were the first north Americans who “became like us.” No previous couriers had stayed in their homes or eaten their meals. Too uncomfortable, they probably thought. The courier was struck with a godly humility, I remembered him saying. “We’re not the great white hope come to save the heathens,” he had thought to himself. In the future, he pointed out, he always went in a posture of humility and listening; he said the results were always different and, more importantly, to the glory of God. The point of this account is that we too often believe we, the information rich but spiritually poor church in the USA, have the answers to all others. Instead, I agree with the brother of the blog..why not, Hillsong, pour yourselves into the local churches in SF with a sense of service and just listening to how the Spirit will lead you? The results might be very different.
[…] Hillsong Church: Do Not Colonize San Francisco […]
[…] Do Not Colonize San Francisco […]
http://babylonbee.com/news/watchblogger-concludes-hes-pretty-much-only-christian-left/
This entire article is hilarious. When the tide rises, all the boats rise with it! Every church is part of the Kingdom and has the same goal. How would Hillsong San Francisco change that? This article just comes from a place of selfishness, in that “Only the people here are called to serve here!” Which is complete ludicrous. Don’t hate on God moving just because you aren’t directly a part of it.
On the other hand, a rising tide only helps those who HAVE boats…
Found your blog through Challies. What saddens me the most Nate is that the commenters are more upset with you (what they say is your inappropriate “tone”) voicing your concerns but not upset at all with the misuse, and dissimulating of scripture by someone who calls himself an undershephard. Also, most of the commenters that are getting on you for your “rudeness and blunt tone” seem to be oblivious that they are doing much of the same or worse as they sit behind thier computer screens. Remember, people are free to be mean and rude if it suits them and their personal beliefs and they are of course able to jude you for judging. Im I the only one to notice this?!?!?! I wish they had the same passion for defending Hillsong for the word of God. Imagine how great that would be! Hillsong is a pragmatic “church” God can and does save people at Hillsong but its by his grace and not because of their teaching. Don’t be so sad and angry Nate, remember the Lord told them to come here! Im disappointed the Lord used his own word out of context but who am I to judge! Well, I must go, the Lord wants me to expand my land and thats not gonna happen on its own.
Thanks for sharing this post. As one who has been to many countries preaching the Gospel and now heading to serve alongside Native Americans, I completely agree with the tenor of this post. I have seen it all over the world and especially here in the US where celebrity pastors are more concerned about book promotion and personal wealth than coming alongside the work the Lord is already doing in communities such as yours. Many people believe that since a man like Houston can draw a crowd he must be from the Lord.. not so, they preach 1/2 the gospel and spend more time and money in self promotion than they do reaching the lost.
Most churches such as this experience lateral movement rather than new converts so they actually come in and disrupt the building of smaller bodies that have been teaching the whole counsel of God for years. They are fulfilling 2Tim 4:3-4. “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, (4) and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.”
We have seen many works where people see big numbers so they think it is God. I say, blow up a few balloons and you’ll get people to show up, that doesn’t mean God showed up!
Blessings brother… Keep telling the truth!
I understand your concerns. I was born and raised in Hollywood California. I started going to Hillsong LA. Sadly there is a lack of understanding the Los Angeles culture. Only until recently, people only worked in DTLA and the homeless lived in DTLA. Los Angeles is a very neglected area when it comes to good churches . A year and a half prior to Hillsong coming to Los Angeles, another church called fearless LA started a church plant. They are also from the Assemblies of God denomination and partnered with an Australian global church and conferences. Their emphasis is also in worship and the majority of their crowd is young hipsters in their 20s. Then Hillsong LA started their church .7 miles away. Downtown LA does not need another church. We need churches in Hollywood, West Hollywood, North Hollywood, Beverly Hills, and other neglected areas. Why don’t churches plant churches there? Because they are the capital of the porn industry, Gay communities, entertainment and MovieStar capital, rock stars, actors etc. There are few churches reaching those people groups. For those who are interested in planting churches, single roots.com discusses a neglected people group -single Christians. The most unchurch group of people are mid 30s through upper 40s single Christians who have vibrant careers yet there are no church ministries to help these people. Church plants and local churches also neglect these important groups of people. Church plants don’t understand how Westside people don’t even want to go to Hollywood because “too east” or they don’t go to downtown LA unless it is a Staple center event. Why do church plants think these people are going to drive all the way to downtown LA for church? Plant a church in the heart of Los Angeles where people live.Most people in Los Angeles hate going to downtown LA because of the high crime, dangerous blocks to park and walk, the homeless.Church plants don’t do their homework and studying the culture and attitudes of native people.
As a pastor who has seen (insert church brand x) come into town, and without any concern take people away from their local churches, then fall apart and start little splinter churches. The only thing I have to say is this was an AWESOME post.
I don’t know anything about your blog but this should be read to students in Bible College before they ever think about planting a church somewhere.
BTW – anyone who thinks this isn’t loving and is judgmental has never read the Bible because the most loving thing you can do is to speak the truth in love.Even I who agreed with the writer found my flesh offended and was thankful for it because it caused me to repent of some idolatries I did not even consider.
As a pastor, you think this is an Awesome post? Your flesh is offended? Wow and you really want people, young people to read this post? I question why? Why would you want to hate anybody who wants to build a church. By the way there are no less than 50 churches planning the same thing? Will you dislike them as well? Where is your comment about those churches or is it just Hillsong you don’t like? The Lord comes in many shapes, sizes and colors ” and wants all to spread the word of the lord”. Not just the ones you like or dislike. Your message needs to be of love not of selectivity. As a pastor you should know and practice this. May God bless you with knowledge and love!
Reading this makes me sad. SF isn’t yours and for you to become so territorial and angry because another church wants to come in and further the cause of making Jesus known looks very insecure and arrogant. No ones looking to steal or take away people from your church or other churches, there are millions of people in SF how could you not be for another church starting up and making a difference? I’m from Toronto, there are tons of churches here already doing a lot of work here but if someone else feels called to starting a church here I’d welcome them in a heartbeat. We’re all after the same thing. Maybe if you’re open to it there’s something you can learn from them and vice versa. Don’t become burnt out and bitter in your ministry because from reading this that’s where it seems like your heading. Praying for you and your church.
[…] Hillsong Church: Do Not Colonize San Francisco […]
[…] Cities are all the rage these days, especially for evangelicals seeking to influence culture. After all, activism was always part of Bebbington’s quadrilateral, so when Tim Keller insisted on the significance of cities, you just knew that every evangelical and their mother was gonna want in. The logic goes that if you influence the cities, you’ll influence the wider culture. That’s probably been Hillsong’s strategy in NYC, LA, and soon in SF. […]
As someone who was affiliated with Hillsong Church for many years, I find this post so liberating to my mind. Having just left the Hillsong Ministry and being wronged in so many ways, this post took everything I felt in the end and put it into words. I don’t know who the person is that wrote this post, but this is some REAL and powerful stuff. Thank you so much!
Jonathan, you need to tell your story. Many are deceived by Brian and Bobbie Houston. Contact Berean Research …..https://www.facebook.com/bereanresearch/
Hello Nate, and everyone,
I come from Menlo Church, centered and growing in the Bay Area currently with four campuses in San Mateo, Menlo Park, Mountain View, and San Jose.
I’d just like to share that tonight, I attended the first info night in SF at the Social Hall on Sutter and Van Ness, hosted by Ben and Lucille Houston, and several of their LA-based members. What an awe-inspiring, thilling experience it was to see so many passionate locals engaged in the conversation.
As I expected, Ben revealed that their agenda is nothing at all like what many pepole, including Nate, wrongly assume. In this and other conversations about Hillsong coming to the Bay Area, I have witnessed many angry and frustrated voices making very poor judgments about Hillsong without knowing firsthand what the relationship with Hillsong really looks and feels like. And of course, there are probably plenty of people who have been hurt by their personal experiences with Hillsong; but all I can say to that we are all human (Hillsong members and staff included, don’t forget!), and that nobody has endured as much pain as Jesus himself. I’m not asking you to “get over it” if you have issues with Hillsong, I’m asking you to return to the cross and lay your hurts down at the feet of one who suffered more dearly than any human ever could.
From Ben’s and his wife’s own mouths, as well as from everyone involved with Hillsong LA and beyond, basically DO NOT HAVE AN AGENDA. They could not stress enough, that they are seeking God’s voice through prayer, relationships, and personal conversations alone. They are not sweeping in on the wings of social media and disjointed conversations. They don’t have a location or a building, they don’t have staff or leaders in SF yet, and they have not even set a single dollar aside for this project. All they currently have is God’s gentle direction, a few volunteers, and a lot of relationship building ahead.
One is tempted to think Hillsong are a massive empire because of the reach of their music ministry, the size of their various campuses, and the seemingly breakneck explosion of this church network across the world. But, depending on your view slant on the world in general, that may or may not be a complete mistake. Yes, Hillsong have great influence, great resources, and the ability to make great decisions that not most of us may never imagine making, but KEEP IN MIND THEY ARE HUMANS. And they are a team of people who love Jesus and want to do whatever they can to express that love to everyone, especially those who are poor, hurting, and in need.
As Nate opens this post with the sincere opinion that Hillsong has absolutely nothing to do with God’s plan for the Bay Area, I am hearing what sounds like the voice of a hurt, angry, frustrated, and possibly very insecure man (a lot like me!) who may often carry the weight of more pessimism and frustration than optimism for God’s people. It can be a great personal challenge to believe what we read in God’s word, but I want to point to scripture to remind us all of what we must believe, somewhere deep down: All things work *together* for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purposes. This is awesome! This is empowering, exciting, inspiring! While this of course doesn’t mean life on earth is going to be peachy keen, and yes there are always people who will trample others to get what they want (In subtle ways, I even do the same to my wife sometimes!). But the bottom line is, we are all His children. So are those who love Jesus and call Hillsong their home community… and as such we are ALL called to be disciples of Jesus, and to share Jesus with everyone whose paths we cross. Jesus said you know his disciples because they love each other. Hating on the good folks of Hillsong (humans just like the rest of us) is not following the words of Jesus.
One thing Hillsong is *very* good at, besides being large and (by that token) often in the media spotlight (just as any large thing will inevitably be), is DISCIPLESHIP. They are not interested in micromanaging or cult-leading. They are simply good at emulating Christ in person, and calling out the God-given purpose in each human being that may have been laying dormant. One of the ways we all know they accomplish this is through deeply passionate praise and worship. Some of the best creative voices in the music industry have come to call Hillsong their home, and just because of all the stigma around pop culture and musicians who rock-n-roll hard to their death shouldn’t taint our understanding of how Hillsong have worked very VERY hard to take back for the kingdom what Lucifer tried to steal by being the appointed worship leader of the heavens.
I continue to be plugged in to the developments of this gentle, patient, and careful movement. I am excited to see greater things happen in the streets of SF and the surrounding area than we’ve ever seen before.
Peace, brothers and sisters. Love to you all! And thank you for your passionate voice, Nate. Prayers for you and your church.
right on. I’ve experienced Hillsong firsthand and I know the vast majority who’ve been blessed by them and a couple who’ve been hurt but thatss a reality we have on this side of eternity. we’re in this together, we’re a team and we can’t battle each other or else this whole thing fails. and this is coming from a pastor who lives 20 mins away from their main Sydney campus. I’m better because of them(and I’d like to think it’s a mutual feeling! lol). But I’m serving in this corner of the Lord’s vineyard and I’m cheering for the Houstons and the whole Hillsong team because when we do, Jesus is lifted up.
Pastor, what about the structure of the church in the bible. This is precisely why Catholicism is wrong. One man Lording over many is unbiblical. What about Brian’s refusal to preach what the bible teaches on homosexuality? What about him allowing his pedaphile dad to Pastor, even after it was brought to his attention. What about Brian stating the Muslims and Christians serve the same God. the agenda is to move us to a ONE WORLD ???? I pray Jesus returns before this nonsense happens. You seem so happy and so eager to have him LORD over you. I dont understand it. We are headed for trouble.
I have been blessed to call Hillsong Church LA home for the past 2 years. They are not perfect but neither am I. I started finding fault in some of the behaviors that I was seeing. God quickly reminded me of my short comings and imperfections. I was reminded that before I try to remove the speck from someone else’s eye, I might want to see the log in mine.
Read the bible and use it to navigate. Do not show up without the word of God by your side and study to show thyself approved. Hillsong is an apostate church that does not teach the entire word of God. You are being led by Brian Houston who has not been truthful. Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God. Hillsong should not be a church but it should be a Motivational Organization. Churches build based on the bible. What he is doing is unbiblical. One Man Lording over potentially billions is unbiblical.
Christians know that Brian Houston is a false Prophet. That is the concern. Those who pledge allegiance to Satan is of Satan. Jesus was very clear in the gospels. As the disciples taught, our job is to work as brothers in Christ. Brian wants to LORD over the rest. This is precisely what the Pope wants. We are living in the end times. WAKE UP. Brian refuses to preach the whole Gospel. THIS IS THE POINT. Mother Teresa dedicated her life to helping the poor. But she died so broken and empty without Christ. She never found him. Brian stated that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. THIS IS ABSURD coming from the mouth of a pastor. Most 10 yr olds know better. He lies just like the average salesman. He is not true and has not repented before the world. He just continues to build. He needs to preach the entire gospel and quit hiding behind artificial love. If he truly LOVES Jesus he would stop preaching Prosperity. He gets rich off of the backs of young people who do not have a relationship with Jesus.
Hi Nate, I couldn’t find you on twitter to tag you, but wanted to say thank you for taking the time to speak up on scripture being used out of context and in a colonizing way… that needs to be pointed out and spelled out more often. I included this post in my weekly lineup of recommended reads here: http://wp.me/p56TZB-13f
The Apostle Paul said it best: “If you become angry, do not let your anger lead you into sin, and do not stay angry all day. Don’t give the Devil a chance. … Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you. And do not make God’s Holy Spirit sad; for the Spirit is God’s mark of ownership on you, a guarantee that the Day will come when God will set you free. Get rid of all bitterness, passion and anger. No more shouting or insults, no more hateful feelings of any sort. Instead, be kind and tenderhearted to one another, and forgive one another, as God has forgiven you through Christ.” – Ephesians 4:26-32 TEV
Yes, let us show we are Christians by our love
BE ANGRY but don’t sin. When a Pastor like Brian Houston is leading the world to Hell preaching a soft distorted Gospel, I am very concerned. Christians read your bible and listen to the messages. The Bible is not asking Brian to preach Prosperity. He should be preaching the cross. You don’t think it sinful for him to live like a king and beg for funds from the young and the people who have very little. Yep they can work and this is his aim. Work the Young, milk the middle class, and grow globally so he can work with the Pope. Some think the AntiChrist will come out of Rome. Brian is helping to set the stage. His aim is to be Lord of all the Pastors around the world. This is unbiblical.
after reading about halfway through this page i feel sick..my soul feels sick..not a lot of love in the hearts of so many who posted here..i’m not going to point fingers or name names..but this is a great commentary on the state of planet earth in the end times..including its “Christian ” members of the human family..not a lot of unity in the body of Christ here..my experience with hillsong has been both positive and negative..such is life..i brought my daughter to a 8pm service in LA and she raised her hand and accepted Jesus Christ because Gods presence and Holy Spirit was so thick and tangible there that Jesus touched the heart of a 12 year old child..my baby..for that i will be forever grateful..yes it could have happened somewhere else..but it didn’t..i know for a fact that the Houston family has a heart for Jesus first and foremost..their doctrine and teachings are sound and Bible based..anyone who says otherwise should check the condition of their heart..i have witnessed firsthand the love of Ben and Lucille for LA for their family..for Hillsong LA..for the downtrodden outside on the mean streets of downtown LA..
Amen
I wonder if more people will find Christ through the “church” TEARING each other apart or by a church TRYING to reach out to people right where they are? Not perfect, but different churches, with all their imperfections and short-comings, reach people different ways. So grateful that someone doesn’t blog about everything they hate and disagree of me when what I do engages within the same city of a hurt blogger. I sure hope this person has set up a time to meet with the pastors that they online spew such hatred about. Surely no-one would write such things without first talking to the person themselves if they truly care about the issue at hand and not just writing a blog.
I used to go to a Presbyterian church and really love it. I don’t go tons, but truly grateful for those that sacrificially give to make it possible. A friend of mine loves going to Hillsong and I have gone some to that church. Although Atheist, loves going because of how inclusive and loving everyone is. I’m sure this Pastor Ben isn’t perfect (and I sure know my friend and I aren’t AT ALL), but I’m glad I got to see a few moments that not many will probably see. I saw firsthand this Ben Houston spend good amounts of time with the homeless, reach out to the overlooked, and listen to those who no-one else will give time to. I guess he isn’t parading those moments online (of which I’m grateful) and the media doesn’t choose to cover that. He made himself extremely accessible to talk to by anyone willing to wait a few minutes after a service I went to. I even saw him help stacking chairs, carrying heavy supplies and other items with other volunteers a couple hours after service ended. Wow. I may not be some theologian but sure glad I experienced going to that church for that service and was curious enough to stay around after, talk with people and watch. His actions spoke way louder than any message (I don’t even remember the message topic to be honest). I would think that sense of wanting to serve a community would be a great resource to any city. I sure wish it existed while I was young.
Would love to hear what was your impression after having a meeting with these pastors? If no meeting was set up or even attempted, it is disheartening to know such hate would be written about online. I heard it said, “Hurt people hurt people”. I’m sincerely sorry on behalf of whoever has hurt you. That must stink. Sorry you had to go through such. Hope you choose to not allow someone else’s cruelness to cripple your outlook on life. That would be a bummer.
just wondering if today you are closer to believing in Jesus? Did the Hillsong experience convince you that Jesus is the truth, the way and the life, no man gets to God without HIM? The Gospel is centered around Jesus. thanks.
Excuse me for saying this, but this sounds no more than a resentful heart. First of all, is not about a city or a nationality. After all.. ALL human beings were created to need and be filled by God in however the style -church- is. So please, chill! 😉 Because over all, is about expanding the Kingdom of God at any church and city. Not only with x or y institution exclusively in one city or planet or universe or whatever. Remember, everything should be for God’s glory… always! :).
Hi Nate,
I read your post and agree with your perspective on Hillsong. I went to Hillsong College Sydney, I was part of the Church in Hillsong Sydney, Hillsong Brisbane and Hillsong London. I worshipped in the band with Darlene, Jad Gillies and Rubean Morgan all lovely people. However after some years I realised that Hillsong Church as a whole DO NOT preach the Gospel.
Now before I start getting hated on by many Hillsongers who may use Matthew 7:3 against me, ask yourself would any faithful Pastor release a book call “You Need more Money – discover God’s wonderful financial plan for your life”. No I’m not kidding Brian Houston (Ben’s Dad) senior Pastor for Hillsong released a book like that. He completely twisted God’s Word https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1c296256cc494641e6f623aab9586f68d8304486bf409947d7239e731d14bf88.jpg throughout the book and in doing so blasphemed God’s name.
The problem is many commenting on this blog have never been fed the real Gospel by Hillsong. And evidently many using profanity or 5th grade name calling don’t come across very Christ like. A big sign of maturity in Christ is discernment.
My question to current Hillsong members are you being Acts 17:11 Bereans in your discernment? Because if you are then it should be obvious the false prosperity Gospel you are being fed week in week out.
Discernment is important in every area of our lives – like choosing a college, a Church, a relationship, a car, a school for our kids, even in the little things like a Bible study book. This is an area we cannot afford to compromise in.
It is said the best way to understand what is evil is not by understanding evil, but by understanding what is good.
A Christian wanted to learn how a bank identified true currency from false currency 2. So he phoned up his local bank and asked to do a short course on identifying true currency.
He came into his bank and they began to teach him about what to look for in genuine currency compared to counterfeit currency it began to dawn on him.
He found it was apparent that experts on bank money fraud teams, didn’t get trained to be an expert in counterfeit currency by studying counterfeit currency. Instead they study good money.
They ran through a few examples of currency. Some counterfeit money was obvious, with the Queen’s head missing and clear fading. However some of it was less obvious. But all along because he was trained in what was right it was easy to tell what was wrong.
A defining moment came when the bank manager training him asked: “when somebody gives you money, you do always check to make sure its genuine right?” For money the stakes may not be that high £5 here or £10 there, however our Spiritual discernment should be of great importance.
What are the dangers of NOT discerning ?
When we are talking spiritually if a Christian isn’t exercising wise judgment between truth and error, they will be subject to any type of false teaching. This is dangerous because it will steer them away from Biblical thinking to un-biblical thinking. This will of course lead someone to living disobediently, and therefore being unrepentant before God. And Jesus said there will be many from the Church, on the day of judgment that will claim to have known him, but he will say “depart from me I never knew you” – see Matthew 7:23
We read in Acts 17:11 in the Bible of when the Apostle Paul came to Thessalonica and preached to the Bereans. The Bible states that they were “of noble character” and they “examined the scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” And as Christians if we are to be “noble” we must test what we are seeing and hearing spiritually with what the Bible says. Because our spiritual health depends on it.
It disappoints me when I hear local preachers teaching that as Christians we mustn’t judge, sometimes even using Matthew 7:1-2 where Jesus says “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged…”. However this notion isn’t true and is a mishandling of the text. As when you read on in verse 5 Jesus says “first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
Jesus encourages us to not judge hypocritically. In other words if someone who swore constantly, rebuked someone else for swearing they would be a hypocrite. Furthermore in John 7:24 Jesus encourages us to “Judge correctly”.
So how can we go about discernment in our everyday lives ?
– Test the Spirits.
One thing that never ceases to amaze me is whenever a Christian remotely says anything complimentary regarding Christianity we immediately hail them as our Christian poster boy/girl. However we must hold back and accept that not everyone who professes Christ possesses Christ.
John encourages us to think in this area. He says in 1 John 4:1 “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
Not every teaching that sounds good is good for you, slow down open up your Bible and match up what someone is saying with God’s Word.
We must protect our walk with the Lord and not get taken in by any teaching that sounds good. It’s so easy to think someone has “an anointing” or “Spiritual gift” just because they are saying something that sounds encouraging. I’m sure you’ve heard the saying “you are what you eat”. Well it’s the same spiritually.
– Don’t always trust your feelings.
Another area that deceives many Christians is the “feelings” they have for a certain teacher or teaching. Remember it doesn’t matter if a so-called Gospel preacher/teacher: makes you laugh, is a good leader, has a University degree, or has thousands in his congregation.
What matters is are they preaching the Biblical Gospel ? Whenever a Pastor uses every other means to entertain the flock rather than, be faithful in allowing God’s Word to be proclaimed this should raise alarm bells.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 says “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.”
3. – Biblically grow and pray for God’s help
Discernment is an important aspect of growing in our faith, Paul advised the Church in Ephesus that when they grow in their faith “Then they will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.” (See Ephesians 4:14).
As we feed ourselves more and more on God’s Word we will fine tune our ability to identify true and false. Indeed we are fighting a spiritual battle, therefore we must keep in mind the importance to arm ourselves or we will be an easy target for the enemy.
Sadly not everyone is exercising discernment. However it’s important to recognize in humility, that it is only because God has given us the gift of discernment that we have the privilege to exercise that gift. And if we see where someone in the Church has gone astray in their theology or preaching we must still be loving with them.
Our purpose must be to be loving. Paul directed the Church in Ephesus in the same way. He says in Ephesians 4:15: “Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ”.
If we feel we ever have the need to challenge a leader, Pastor or other brother/sister in the faith we must love them first. Our purpose must be to always point them back to the Word of God, not to win an argument.
If you feel you lack discernment it’s important to pray and ask that God will grant you discernment. In Ephesians 6:18 Paul emphasises this – “And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.”
There is many books in the Bible that deal with exercising discernment and identifying false teaching and false teachers. A good place to start is the book of Jude. Jude’s initial intention was to write to his recipients regarding salvation in Christ. However Jude felt it very necessary to instead warn the Church regarding false teachers.
So many in the comments who talk about “love” are not talking about true biblical love, which “does not rejoice with iniquity but rejoices with the truth” (1 Corinthians 13:6). It is about wanting the best for the other person, particularly in light of eternity, who God is and how black sin is. And so love is not primarily about not being offensive.
The Hillsong juggernaut does not, on the whole, have theology good enough for the bad times. Worse still, as some have mentioned (Nate included), it’s the so-called prosperity ‘gospel’ that gets preached there. The abuse of Scripture that happens in there is awful ― any text taken out of context is a pretext for prooftexting or for bad theology as mentioned by Nate in the main article.
Also, the perspicuity of Scripture means that Matt 7:1-2 (some going all the way to 7:5) cannot be taken independently from John 7:24, otherwise we become Yehoyakims (see Jeremiah 36).
Dare I say it, the Hillsong juggernaut embodies pride. It is pride in the uttermost, given that it takes a bit of theology, has good experiences and says “this is Christianity”. Well, you’ve got a good start, but you don’t have a life built on the thing. And real Christians listen out for the people around them before coming to their judgement as to what must be done. But more importantly real Christians hear the Word ― the written Word ― and do it, since that’s what is authoritative. And since it’s authoritative, one ought to hear it out for what it really says before placing oneself in whichever position it is. Being a first-level exegete helps enormously with this.
Oh, let us press on to know God, not pander to our emotions! Let us but know Him alone! The fullness of His holiness… one must know it to know it.
Would that the fear of the true God gripped the people within the Hillsong juggernaut, and would that He saved people out of it and brought them to Himself.
HILLSONG is an Apostate Church that spoke of in Scripture. Brian Houston is deluded. HE is confused about who God really is. He stated that Muslims and Christians serve the same God. WRONG. He is a Wolf…not well disguised either.
Yikes! I am a member of hillsongla . Ben has a loving heart full of compassion, we help homeless people in la and all over the world and sf is next , we are a Matthew 25 church !I have helped over 100 homeless people attain their housing in la for Jesus and partnered in the love of my church! Let’s stop the strife let’s start the love.
What do you think about preaching the whole Bible. You cannot pick and choose. God is not happy with Brian Houston. He lies too much. You too are deceived. This is not biblical…EXPANSION…TAKE OVERS…DRIVING PEOPLE OUT….The structure of the church is much different. We are all brothers…Brian should not Lord over the others. He wants more wealth. AND YOU? He doesn’t share the spoils with the people he takes from. SAD. Preach the WORD. TEACH the people how to draw closer to GOD and allow them to build …HELP them build on their on land…..A minister who is confused about who God is can never bring light to darkness.
I don’t think having a heart for a city requires growing up there, living there, being hurt by the city I think we are required to have a heart for every nation, person ext. that is what the Bible commands from all of us. They just sadly are some of the few that have decided to obediently follow through with what Jesus asked of us.
Hillsong has been given a platform & they are using it in a country that has a mostly secular population full of young people that have never been presented with the truth or if they have it is a twisted version of it, instead of tearing them down perhaps you should get to know the villains in your story.
Sad. You dont know Hillsong. This is an APOSTATE church that preaches not the word of God. They preach a prosperity Gospel. Did you hear them mention Jesus? NO…you heard EXPANSION. But I hear GREED. ITS ALL ABOUT GETTING MORE MONEY…more young souls who are lost. Let me tell you, Brian Houston refuses to preach the whole gospel of God. He lies too much for a minister. He was under investigation for covering up the PEDAPHILE Dad who Pastored at Hillsong. SICK. This man stated that Christians and Muslims worship the same God. HE is furthering the agenda of the Catholic Church. WATCH. He is building for wicked personal reasons. HE has a pastor on staff that fell into sexual sin. He stepped down and started a company that tells you how to become RICH. Then he fell again. He was arrested for assaulting his wife. So I am sure San Francisco has enough sins of its own without those of Brian HOUSTON.
Poco Reese, I appreciate your sentiments to stand for the integrity of the Gospel. I do not appreciate you responding to people en masse. I have warned others who had similar approaches to this comment thread. Please respond to people in ways that cultivate dialogue or I will block you. Thank you.
Hi Nate.
This came up in my feed today, strangely enough. I noticed that it had been two years, and I think Hillsong SF is launching this week. I’m not sure if they have done more work to try and engage you, but they definitely will have met with significant SF pastors. The family chosen to come out from Australia (the Browns) has been ministering in a particularly diverse part of Sydney, and I think they are excited that the weather in SF is apparently better for Brenden and their two sons, who all suffer Epidermolysis Bullosa (commonly known as EB or “fragile skin”). I think they will walk kindly and faithfully in your city, and we love them dearly.
See: https://hillsong.com/collected/blog/2014/10/real-people-doing-real-life-brave/#.WeqrtIZx1PM
As an update, your post sparked so much conversation between my colleagues and I. So much so in fact, I asked Mark Porter from Erfurt University to write a chapter evaluating Hillsong’s church planting and church relationships, using your widely shared blogpost and also his own experience of attending St Algates in Oxford, UK.
This should be released in the next few months in a volume I initiated to try and get some considered debate going: http://www.springer.com/us/book/9783319596556
It wasn’t intended as an apologetic, but a dialogue. I appreciated your raw honesty, and I thought it was worth continuing the conversation.
Unfortunately, I think the nature of this forum ended up with people kind of piling on each other against the other side. Just like this post turned up in every feed of my friend’s at the time (many of whom knew nothing about Hillsong at all, or who have made hating Hillsong their full-time profession). I’m sure you were overwhelmed by those who were posting on behalf of the church (who don’t attend, actually, ironically) It would have been better to just chat it out in person, I’m sure.
Also, last week we initiated our first ever Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander dialogue, which was a dream come true for me. I’m sure that it emerged from a seed planted in this discussion, and the idea of having more official conversations with groups, now that our brand is so strong. Until now, we’ve only done this in an unofficial sense.
So, thank you for all your reflections, and for burning brightly with zeal for the church.
Many blessings upon you, your ministry & your church (I so hope I can visit you in SF one day!)
Tanya Riches.
Tanya, great to hear from you again – thank you so much for the update! And I’m really interested in what you and your colleagues have found. Let’s definitely keep in touch!
Tanya Thanks for being optimistic and a believer I think so people should before thrown rocks look to themselves first Look inside and try to see what’s is so wrong and dark in their Hearts to write terrible things about people who are just trying to spread the love and peace
Nate, I googled Hillsong SF with intention of visiting and out popped this article. A pleasant surprise, albeit ironic! So good seeing my old fellowship leader here, and reading your piece of mind once again. Some good points though I don’t completely agree. Great food for thought nevertheless. I’m going to be chewing on this for awhile, meanwhile visiting Hillsong.